bigjoe Posted January 17, 2007 Share #26 Posted January 17, 2007 this one is made out of shelter-half cammo...u.s.m.c crystal ltd australia 1943...smells,rust stained,looks right... not sure..faint funny looking e.g.a on green side only..if only it could talk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigjoe Posted January 17, 2007 Share #27 Posted January 17, 2007 beach side. this is the one myself, lloyd and chris chewed over on sunday... this is made from ww11 shelter-half ..but when.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigjoe Posted January 17, 2007 Share #28 Posted January 17, 2007 sat on my odd looking smock also made out of shelter-half..same pattern/ texture/feel if anyone has a h.b.t. cover crystal marked please post pics of the beach side for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Robinson Posted January 17, 2007 Share #29 Posted January 17, 2007 Hey Joe Here's a non HBT camo cover that was sent to me by Lloyd a few years ago. No markings other than the very unique looking ega stencil. And I compared it to a confirmed modern made fake made out of ww2 shelter half and the colors are different. The quality of manufacture of this cover is inferior to known USGI covers but good enough that it might have been made overseas by a company not very skilled at this but good enough to get by during wartime. Greg PS...take note of the foliage slits which were always left off the "shelter half" fakes. No reason to do this with a fake since most USMC collectors will pay a preminum for "1st pattern" covers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigjoe Posted January 17, 2007 Share #30 Posted January 17, 2007 very interesting greg..foliage slits left off the "shelter half" fakes..yes that makes sence as you say collectors will pay a preminum for "1st pattern" covers..why go to the trouble to add them..the ega stencil is a dead copy of the shelter-half one i have sat here.. ..will post pics of mine ...now i have seen four of the wobbly aussie made covers but never one with foliage slits ...this gets deeper..joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Robinson Posted January 17, 2007 Share #31 Posted January 17, 2007 very interesting greg..foliage slits left off the "shelter half" fakes..yes that makes sence as you say collectors will pay a preminum for "1st pattern" covers..why go to the trouble to add them..the ega stencil is a dead copy of the shelter-half one i have sat here.. ..will post pics of mine ...now i have seen four of the wobbly aussie made covers but never one with foliage slits ...this gets deeper..joe The one that Kenneth found almost has to be legit......as does yours. Mine also shows use and age. But we may never know for sure. Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2ad82recon Posted January 17, 2007 Author Share #32 Posted January 17, 2007 Wayne chip in here buddy...whats YOUR take on these ? Regards Lloyd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiller Posted January 17, 2007 Share #33 Posted January 17, 2007 we definately need some pics of lesters cover to compere i will see if he will bring it to stoneleigh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schnicklfritz Posted January 18, 2007 Share #34 Posted January 18, 2007 On these Aussie covers where the M1's chinstrap bails would go through the cover. Does the cover need to be slit for the bails or is the cover made to fit around the bails? They look like they are made to fit around the bails without having to slit the cover. It looks to me that the Aussie cover conforms to helmet cover construction patterns that are much later and post war(like the Mitchell and Erdl pattern covers), not the WW2 style that Marines had to cut to put the chinstrap through. If Crystal Ltd. "copied" the cover like they copied the camo pattern, then I would imagine that the cover would exhibit the same construction as 1st pattern covers all around. I'm still on the critical side that these covers are post war fantasy pieces patterned off of later helmet covers. Even if one came from a vet's estate, that still would not do it for me. Not to be too cynical, but many times fake items have come out of vet estates. My friend just started a museum back home in WVa. A WW2 82nd vet brought him his M1C helmet and said that it was the one he wore during the war. The liner was dated 1963 and all componets were 60's era M1 parts. Just one of many stories of bad items coming from vet estates that I'm sure everyone has heard of. Not slamming vets of course, but sometimes along the line a dishonest collector might replace an original with a reproduction without the vets knowledge or may attempt to "plant" an item in an estate in order to try to validate it to the period. I've never owned one of these covers, so I've never been able to compare them to other covers. Perhaps one of the owners could compare the Aussie cover dimensions to the later ERDL or Mitchell pattern covers. To me the pattern looks like it came from a 60's dated ERDL cover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rayg Posted January 18, 2007 Share #35 Posted January 18, 2007 I've been following this interesting thread and have no opinion either way on the Aussie covers. My only Question on it is that all the repro covers I've seen are unmarked following the pattern of the original covers. So why would some repro mfg put that aussie stamp on one which is non standard/different and open for question as well as showing non US made which actually distracts value from it. Especially years ago when most collectors wanted US goods? Just some thoughts, Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Apathy Posted January 18, 2007 Share #36 Posted January 18, 2007 Hello Rayg, thanks for your thoughts on this and I like your comment on why stamp ' made in Australia', 38 years ago when I first encountered one of these covers as a find folded between the liner and the outer, I would not at that time have considered buying something not U.S. manufactured. Made in Australia would have been the equivelant of ' Made in Japan' at that time. 38 years ago all this equipment ( underwear to jeeps etc ) was still surplus stuff. it sold for pennies Hbt and M-43 stuff was sold for people to go to work in, Jeeps were used by farmers. This debate will go on and on for time to come, I think . Cheers ( Lewis ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Robinson Posted January 18, 2007 Share #37 Posted January 18, 2007 I've been following this interesting thread and have no opinion either way on the Aussie covers. My only Question on it is that all the repro covers I've seen are unmarked following the pattern of the original covers. So why would some repro mfg put that aussie stamp on one which is non standard/different and open for question as well as showing non US made which actually distracts value from it. Especially years ago when most collectors wanted US goods? Just some thoughts, Ray Ray I can answer that. Made in Australia USMC gear and uniforms are very desirable in the eyes of USMC collectors due to their relative scarcity. I once saw a field bag of some sort.....been nine years since I saw it and memory fades so can't give details.....but I still kick myself for not buying it. It had australia and USMC marking and was 1943 dated. In the early days of fighting in the south Pacific the 1st and 2nd Marine Divisions were based out of Australia and New Zealand so souviners from these early war days are coveted by collectors. Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigjoe Posted January 18, 2007 Share #38 Posted January 18, 2007 e.g.a stamp on my ' made in Australia' cover Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigjoe Posted January 18, 2007 Share #39 Posted January 18, 2007 as you can see the Aussie cover looks like it is made to fit around the bails. ..are they all like this or is this the result of knocking them out in a back room... .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rayg Posted January 18, 2007 Share #40 Posted January 18, 2007 Hi Greg, Ah I get your point and I know that USMC collecting is really big now. However did it have a big enough following almost 40 years ago when Lewis found his under the helmet to justify manufacturing a run of repro covers with the Aussie stamp? Just wondering, you would probably know, Ray. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bryson152 Posted January 19, 2007 Share #41 Posted January 19, 2007 Hi All, Those turning out reproductions tend to go where the money is and 30 to 40 years ago, it wasn't in US Militaria. Some German WWII items were already hard to find, the prices began to rise and the market for repro/fake/fraud had started. Apart from all his female conquests and his time with Led Zepplin, General Apathy has told me about some amazing individual or bulk US items he passed on because there wasn't a market for them. He has already mentioned the 500 pairs of rigger modified M43 trousers in a warehouse. Repros/fakes/fraud is big business and the guys involved go where the hard cash is. Just look at the collecting world today; still German, USMC, US and British Airborne, plus medals etc. I don't know anything about these covers, but it just doesn't make sense to produce them 30 to 40 years ago, if the collector market wasn't there in large numbers to buy them. Cheers Allan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schnicklfritz Posted January 21, 2007 Share #42 Posted January 21, 2007 as you can see the Aussie cover looks like it is made to fit around the bails. ..are they all like this or is this the result of knocking them out in a back room... .. Ok, now if this is the way that the Aussie made covers fit over the M1 helmet, then it should be easliy picked out in period photos due to the high seam over the bails. Ok, start diggin' through those millions of photos!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jon prince Posted January 28, 2007 Share #43 Posted January 28, 2007 Ok, now if this is the way that the Aussie made covers fit over the M1 helmet, then it should be easliy picked out in period photos due to the high seam over the bails. Ok, start diggin' through those millions of photos!! I have a cover in my collection, bought as original when I was starting out that fits poorly around the bales just like this, it's also tight around the crown. I bought 2 at the same time, both completely unmarked but same 'manufacture' I'm fairly sure they are infact tent section cut-ups and the bad fit is due to them being copied from a later cover for the smaller M1. The manufacturing and material looks remarkably similar to at least one of the 'Australian' marked covers posted here. Not drawing conclusions, just adding fuel to the debate. Will try and post pictures if I can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigjoe Posted January 29, 2007 Share #44 Posted January 29, 2007 please post the cover jon green and brown sides please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgawne Posted August 27, 2007 Share #45 Posted August 27, 2007 Of course lots of material was made in Australia during the war as part of reverse lend lease- but then, one of the reasons for the rarity is that if the US Govt left tons of material sitting on islands becasue it was not worth shipping home, then the only way any of it will get to the States is either from a vet who brought it back himself, or if someone sold some to a dealer some time after the war. There were oddles of this stuff in the states, and it makes no sesne to waste time and energy on shipping home home material that is just going to sit in a warehouse until it gets sold for pennies on the dollar. Now I can tell you that the Crystal covers were sold new, in numbers by Woodhaven Antiques about 1980 ish- I was told by a fellow that knew the owner well, that they had been made up, the Crystal name supposedly came from his girlfriend at the time, and that they screwed up on the pattern and made them just a tiny bit too small. So they were very hard to fit on a helmt. WHen asked the owner would tell people that the reason he had them, and in new shape, was the company made them too small in the War, so they sat in a warehouse until he found them int he 1970's. Sadly, I think I tossed out any of the old 'newsprint' catalogs- and everything I say is hersay, but, the sources were very very good at the time. So step one is to find out if there ever was a Crystal Ltd in OZ. Or do I recall someone saying they had copies of all USMC contracts for WW2? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
collector Posted September 7, 2007 Share #46 Posted September 7, 2007 These are cropping up on ebay. Not HBT. Are these for real? I'm not in the market, but like to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgawne Posted September 8, 2007 Share #47 Posted September 8, 2007 There is a long discussion someplace here about these. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Hudson Posted September 8, 2007 Share #48 Posted September 8, 2007 There is a long discussion someplace here about these. This topic was actually the 20th topic ever made on the forum when it was just three days old. It's got some good information on these: http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/ind...hp?showtopic=20 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
collector Posted September 10, 2007 Share #49 Posted September 10, 2007 I know the USMC did have items made in Australia (and New Zealand?), Guadalcanal patches anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigjoe Posted December 7, 2007 Share #50 Posted December 7, 2007 only a matter of time before we saw another aussie cover......yer right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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