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Need help with a WW1 uniform


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Gents---once again looking for a little help: trying to identify this blue stripe underneath the OS stripe on this 27th ID uniform---the Brass is US and MG/A and there is a Mexican border service, a WW1 victory ribbon with Star and what I think is either a Phillipine or China service ribbon---thoughts or good guesses?

post-2235-1210786988.jpg

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Not an answer, but perhaps a lead for you:

 

The Chicago Daily News War Book (some outstanding info, also some period printed misconceptions) lists some of the AEF Brassards that were used in the trenches. The BLUE brassard indicated "Agents and Signalmen." Now when I think of a brassard I think of a separate piece of cloth that is worn higher on the arm, but I have also had one or two uniforms with this interesting cuff detail.

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Gents---once again looking for a little help: trying to identify this blue stripe underneath the OS stripe on this 27th ID uniform---the Brass is US and MG/A and there is a Mexican border service, a WW1 victory ribbon with Star and what I think is either a Phillipine or China service ribbon---thoughts or good guesses?

Arm Bands:

 

General Orders HEADQUARTERS. A. E. F.

No. 59 France, November 11, 1917.

 

I. The following distinguishing marks for specialists, and individuals detailed for special duties which, on occasion, separate them from their organizations, are hereby prescribed:

 

Guides and Scouts ----------------------------Green Arm Band

Orderlies and Messenger (Runners)--------Red Arm band

Agents and Signalmen-------------------------Blue Arm Band

Carrying Parties (Munitions. Material,

Food, Water)------------------------------------Yellow Arm Band

Trench Cleaners--------------------------------White Arm Band

Salvage Parties---------------------------------Khaki Arm Band with “Salvage”in red letters

 

These bands will be one and one-half inches wide and, with the exception of orderlies to different headquarters, will be worn around the left fore-arm. Headquarters orderlies will wear the red band around the left upper arm.

 

Men equipped with wire cutters will wear a piece of white tape tied to the right shoulder strap.

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Arm Bands:

 

General Orders HEADQUARTERS. A. E. F.

No. 59 France, November 11, 1917.

 

I. The following distinguishing marks for specialists, and individuals detailed for special duties which, on occasion, separate them from their organizations, are hereby prescribed:

 

Agents and Signalmen-------------------------Blue Arm Band

 

 

These bands will be one and one-half inches wide and, with the exception of orderlies to different headquarters, will be worn around the left fore-arm.

 

Wow---nice work and fast......it certainly seems to meet the criteria and would make sense that an older trooper would make a good signalman---but it raises another question: What is an "agent" and what do they do?

 

thanks again....

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The only thing is, these were all jobs that people were detailed to rather then permanent jobs which is why they used arm bands and not patches or something permanently affixed to the uniform. This band appears to be embroidered or sewn to the uniform this seems like a lot of trouble and expensive to go to for something that may need to be removed at any time. I first thought it might be his going home uniform and had it done to impress the folks back home but there is no Discharge Stripe. This may well be Signalman's Band but I would still be opened to other ideas.

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The only thing is, these were all jobs that people were detailed to rather then permanent jobs which is why they used arm bands and not patches or something permanently affixed to the uniform. This band appears to be embroidered or sewn to the uniform this seems like a lot of trouble and expensive to go to for something that may need to be removed at any time. I first thought it might be his going home uniform and had it done to impress the folks back home but there is no Discharge Stripe. This may well be Signalman's Band but I would still be opened to other ideas.

Gee thanks...here I was all set and you have to throw logic into it....as you noted, this stripe is heavily sewn onto the coat and the OS is sewn right directly on it---maybe he was so proud to be agent/signalman that he decided to keep it forever---I still think he must have been an older gentleman to have the foreign service ribbon (China/PI) and the Mex border service ribbon so maybe he was the "head" signalman for Company A of the Machine gun BN...but if so, why no chevrons? What was that song back in the 60s: "Like a circle in a spiral, like a wheel within a wheel..."

 

and still not sure what an "agent" did...

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Gee thanks...here I was all set and you have to throw logic into it....as you noted, this stripe is heavily sewn onto the coat and the OS is sewn right directly on it---maybe he was so proud to be agent/signalman that he decided to keep it forever---I still think he must have been an older gentleman to have the foreign service ribbon (China/PI) and the Mex border service ribbon so maybe he was the "head" signalman for Company A of the Machine gun BN...but if so, why no chevrons? What was that song back in the 60s: "Like a circle in a spiral, like a wheel within a wheel..."

 

and still not sure what an "agent" did...

 

 

I've owned one jacket that had the green stripe permanently sewn to the cuff like this one. I believe it was fairly common if the person were permanently detailed to that position in the unit.

 

As far as an "agent", I believe it was someone to who relayed telegrams between two points.

 

Dave

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316th FS 324th FG

Just thinkin' out loud here - wouldnt it be pretty hard to keep the stripe on the forearm if it wasnt sewed on? Tying it on wouldnt seem to work to well, as it would with a brassard on the upper arm, since the forearm narrows and it would tend to slip.

 

Pinning it might work, but would look messy. So I would make sense to me that they would sew it on.

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Fully concur with the above posts.......it's for a guy on signal detail.

 

I have seen these sewn on to the uniforms, and I had one in a trunk group that was just "loose".....like the soldier might have tied it onto his arm when he wanted to, or he just never took the time to sew it on.

 

I have several views of variations of these armbands in photo-postcards, and they seem to be sewn-on more often than not.

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Gents---the jury is in and I am glad to accept their verdict---Thanks again to all who chimed in--I'm in your debt: Stay in the treeline and I'll meet you on the objective with hot chow and dry socks....S/F

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As a comparison, here's a 33rd division scout uniform (green band) from my collection. I've also added some pictures of the banding detail in my next reply.

 

Tim

 

post-2144-1211167448.jpg

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Banding details ....

 

Tim

Tim---that is a great uniform---wow---just super...do you have any closeups of the 33rd ID patch?

 

to the moderators---any chance of running a section on AEF WW1 patch variations where guys could load up their pictures by divsions or organizations and show all the different versions? Sort of like a Keller book but not limited by time and page count?

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Tim---that is a great uniform---wow---just super...do you have any closeups of the 33rd ID patch?

 

to the moderators---any chance of running a section on AEF WW1 patch variations where guys could load up their pictures by divsions or organizations and show all the different versions? Sort of like a Keller book but not limited by time and page count?

 

Here's a photo of the 33rd division patch on this uniform. I like the idea of starting a section on WWI patches. I'd be happy to contribute photos of all my examples.

 

Tim

 

post-2144-1211244081.jpg

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Here's a photo of the 33rd division patch on this uniform. I like the idea of starting a section on WWI patches. I'd be happy to contribute photos of all my examples.

 

Tim

 

post-2144-1211244081.jpg

Tim--nice patch---as a potential contribution to a WW1 patch section heres some of my 29th ID patches and their associated collar disks.

post-2235-1211653692.jpg

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