Navy Steward's Mate Ratings

[Bob Hudson]

Picked up a box of US Navy ratings today: the box is marked Steward's Mate SD, but I'm having a heck of a time trying to determine if that's really what they are and, if so, from what period.

 

 

The crossed quill and key is what you see on the Ship's Serviceman rating but it does not have the ledger this one has. The box had several of these patches, all still sealed in the glassine envelopes. A couple of GEMSCO, several are LIONA ( Lion Brothers ) and several have no marks on the envelope.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[sigsaye]

Picked up a box of US Navy ratings today: the box is marked Steward's Mate SD, but I'm having a heck of a time trying to determine if that's really what they are and, if so, from what period.

 

 

The crossed quill and key is what you see on the Ship's Serviceman rating but it does not have the ledger this one has. The box had several of these patches, all still sealed in the glassine envelopes. A couple of GEMSCO, several are LIONA ( Lion Brothers ) and several have no marks on the envelope.

 

 

 

 

 

 

That is what you have there. The rate was around from '48 or '49 until 1975. It took care of officers and the wardroom. In 1975 it was combined with the Commissary Steward (CS) rating to form the Mess Management Specialist (MS) rating. (With yet another new rating badge). This has since been changed again back to CS, but is not called Culinary Specialist.

 

Steve Hesson

[sigsaye]

That is what you have there. The rate was around from '48 or '49 until 1975. It took care of officers and the wardroom. In 1975 it was combined with the Commissary Steward (CS) rating to form the Mess Management Specialist (MS) rating. (With yet another new rating badge). This has since been changed again back to CS, but is not called Culinary Specialist.

 

Steve Hesson

Aditionally, Non-rated Stewards Mates for a while were designated TR, TA, TN, vise SDSR, SDSA, or SDSN. This ended sometime in the late '60s, and they did then go by the designations SDSR etc.

 

I remember that when the consolidation happened in '75, there were a lot of Commissary Stewards that refused to work in the ward room. Stewards were thought of more as officers servants and the old Ships Cooks were having none of it. It of course eventually sorted itself out. I had one buddy who was a CAptains cook. He had started in the galley, and adapted well to going to the wardroom. He ended up going to several culinary schools on th eNavys dime and turned out to be pretty good. When ever he was trying something new, he would call me down to try it out.

 

Steve Hesson

[dpcsdan]

Aditionally, Non-rated Stewards Mates for a while were designated TR, TA, TN, vise SDSR, SDSA, or SDSN. This ended sometime in the late '60s, and they did then go by the designations SDSR etc.

 

I remember that when the consolidation happened in '75, there were a lot of Commissary Stewards that refused to work in the ward room. Stewards were thought of more as officers servants and the old Ships Cooks were having none of it. It of course eventually sorted itself out. I had one buddy who was a CAptains cook. He had started in the galley, and adapted well to going to the wardroom. He ended up going to several culinary schools on th eNavys dime and turned out to be pretty good. When ever he was trying something new, he would call me down to try it out.

 

Steve Hesson

Steve,

I'd forgotten about the TR-TA-TN designations.

I was a mess cook in the Goat Locker, pretty chushy job out of what the other mess cooks had to do. I'd also shine the chief's shoes if they left them out for me. On payday the chief's passed the hat and gave me a little extra to live on. $90 a month in base pay did not go far when we were in port at Treasure Island, San Francisco. Did you know Treasure Island use to be called goat island, and the "flat part" was man made for the 1939 World's Fair?

-dan

[sigsaye]

Steve,

I'd forgotten about the TR-TA-TN designations.

I was a mess cook in the Goat Locker, pretty chushy job out of what the other mess cooks had to do. I'd also shine the chief's shoes if they left them out for me. On payday the chief's passed the hat and gave me a little extra to live on. $90 a month in base pay did not go far when we were in port at Treasure Island, San Francisco. Did you know Treasure Island use to be called goat island, and the "flat part" was man made for the 1939 World's Fair?

-dan

Oh yeah, "cranking" in the Goat Locker was a pretty good deal for those who got it. The "Tips" on payday helped. We always asked for some kid who was married, so he apreciated the cash a bit, and we pretty much knew that in port, "Mama" was gonna make sure he was there.

 

Steve Hesson

[ehrentitle]

So that's what that rate is! I have one that came along with some 1944 marked Gunner's Mate rates that belonged to my father in law:

[Jim Baker]

Would you old salts happen to know if these Commissaryman's rates would fit into the 1960-61 time frame?

 

Thanks!!

 

[sigsaye]

Would you old salts happen to know if these Commissaryman's rates would fit into the 1960-61 time frame?

 

Thanks!!

 

Yes it would, it was used until 1975.

 

Steve Hesson

[Jim Baker]

Thanks Steve!!

 

Another question. Do you happen to know when they started using this rate?

 

Thanks again!!

[dpcsdan]

Thanks Steve!!

 

Another question. Do you happen to know when they started using this rate?

 

Thanks again!!

Commissaryman was in use from 1948 through 1974 when it was merged with the Mess Management Specialist along with the rating of Steward. Prior to that the specialty was called Commissary Steward and was in use from 1902-1948 for CPOs and 1902-1930 for PO1s. During the 1902-1948 usage the quill was pointed in the opposite direction.

[navyman]

Commissaryman was in use from 1948 through 1974 when it was merged with the Mess Management Specialist along with the rating of Steward. Prior to that the specialty was called Commissary Steward and was in use from 1902-1948 for CPOs and 1902-1930 for PO1s. During the 1902-1948 usage the quill was pointed in the opposite direction.

 

Hi,

I never heard of that before(During the 1902-1948 usage the quill pointed in the opposite direction). I all ways thought they used both styles, as I have examples of both styles. Here is some pictures of dated rates with the quill in other direction.

 

Jason

 

[navyman]

Another example

 

 

[Jim Baker]

Hi Navyman,

 

What are your thoughts on this one? I'm just trying to put something together for my Dad. He retired in January 1962 as a Chief Commissaryman. Sorry about the crappy photo, it's on eBay.

 

[navyman]

Hi Jim,

The sewn on chevrons tells me at best its from the early or mid mid 50's, but could be earlier. It looks like it could possibly be ww2, it's hard to tell with that photo. They did away with sewn on chevrons in the early to mid 50's and went to embroider chevrons. If you want one from the 1960's it should have embroider chevrons. I will show a example of the two.

 

embroider chevrons/ sewn-on chevrons

[Jim Baker]

10-4. Thanks.

[dpcsdan]

Hi,

I never heard of that before(During the 1902-1948 usage the quill pointed in the opposite direction). I all ways thought they used both styles, as I have examples of both styles. Here is some pictures of dated rates with the quill in other direction.

 

Jason

 

Jason,

Thanks for the input.

-dan

[dpcsdan]

Jason,

Thanks for the input.

-dan

Jason,

Got any examples of the quill pointed left pre-1941?

Thanks,

-dan

[navyman]

Dan,

I only have two pre-1941 and the one is coming, I just bought the non bullion one off ebay.

 

Jason

 

[navyman]

Dan,

I only have two pre-1941 and the one is coming, I just bought the non bullion one off ebay.

 

Jason

 

 

I forgot I have this one also.

Jason

 

 

[dpcsdan]

I forgot I have this one also.

Jason

Thanks, Jason.

Perhaps the "mixed direction period" was June 1941 through March 1948...

From the ones I've personally seen, all quill tips pointed to the right on Commissary Steward rating badges from 1902-1940. John Stacey notes that Commissary Steward first class was only used from 1902 through 1930 when first class were reclassified as either Cook or Baker. So only CPO Commissary Steward rating badges were in use from 1930-1948.

What does everone else think?

-dan

[navyman]

Hi Dan,

I have John Stacey's book also. He has Commissarry Stewart: Chief 1902-1948, 1st class 1902-1930, I have a 3rd class with the quil to the right, it is not dated but not all were in ww2. There is no metion of that in the book.

Jason

 

[sigsaye]

Hi Navyman,

 

What are your thoughts on this one? I'm just trying to put something together for my Dad. He retired in January 1962 as a Chief Commissaryman. Sorry about the crappy photo, it's on eBay.

 

Actually Jim, sewn Chevrons are correct for the '60 also. My father retired in '67 and his uniform has sewn chevrons and sewn hashmarks. In the Navy, just becouse there was a different style manufactured, the old items were never rewquired to be desposed of as long as they still worked. In fact, as long as there were stocks on hand, the Navy would continue to use the items. It is very common to see post 1948 photos showing Sailors wearing formerly right arm crows on their left sleeve. I at one time had an old "All Hands" magazine that had an article about this, aproved by the Navy to use up the stocks of right arm crows before spending a bunch of money on the new style. It had photos of a BM2 who simply shifted all his crows from the right arm to the left. Point being that there is not really a definate time break for sewn chewvrons/embroidered chevrons. Both were used simultainously. In fact, I have a left arm Chief Signalman crow (post '48) with sewn chevrons.

 

So far, everything you have shown asking if it would work for a CSC of '60-'61 is completely. My Uncle was a CSC who retired in '60, and your stuff looks just like the ones on his old uniforms.

 

Steve Hesson

[pbasso1954]

I made 1st class in Feb 1980 and I have an AME-1 rating on my pea coat with sewn on stripes. It wasn't until after I got out of the Navy that I found out it was an older crow. But nobody cared as long as I had the correct crow on my uniforms.

[dpcsdan]

I made 1st class in Feb 1980 and I have an AME-1 rating on my pea coat with sewn on stripes. It wasn't until after I got out of the Navy that I found out it was an older crow. But nobody cared as long as I had the correct crow on my uniforms.

True with all my commands, nobody cared what period your rating badge was as long as it was the correct specialty mark.