M1918 Mk. I Trench Knife comparing originals to your “suspect” knife thread

[militariaone]

Greetings all,

It has been awhile since I have posted anything new on this thread as far as reproductions go simply because I have not viewed anything that has not been covered before here or elsewhere (i.e. Frank Trzaska's website). That said, today, I saw this interesting (pictured below) solid knuckle's variant listed on Gunbroker.com and just as I was beginning to get that "buck fever-like" feeling of finding something potentially rare/unknown; I viewed where it was being sold from... Seattle, WA (NOOOOOOOOOOOO!). Instantly, my case of buck-fever drained away as I realized this was surely a new-made offering. Some further searching confirmed my suspicions; they are being offered by a seller more associated (and discussed in other forum threads) with casting new-made/reproduction Stone Knuckle Knives, but the Seattle location actually tipped me off long before I took a good look at the fonts/markings on the knuckles (they're pretty close, but not too well defined, see for yourself). To the seller's credit, they are described in the listing as "VERY nice 100% solid brass LF&C U.S. 1918 style duster, heavy and VERY solid paperweight ! FREE SHIPPING ! PLEASE see other ads for more knucks !" So there is no overt claim these knuckles are circa 1918 L. F. & C. original made "unfinished" knuckles. The key word in the description of course is "style." In any case it is a new reproduction now on the market and worthy of a post in this thread.

Bottom line, I felt it prudent to post a set of these knuckles on this reference thread now, so that in the future when a set is posted as "Grandpa's factory seconds/spare parts lunch box special unfinished knuckles" on the regular Edged Weapon's forum, the rest of us interested in original variants of these knives may quickly dispense with those shenanigans/that nonsense. I know this won't necessarily change the new/future owner(s)' opinion (as Grandpa never lied, right?), but for the rest of us it is what it is These knuckles won't fool those familiar with originals for too long, but they're good enough to catch the unwary/unfamiliar off guard.

Regards,

Lance

[cwnorma]

Lance,

 

I'm actually glad to see these. I have seen more than a few nice trench knives sacrificed so their handles could become motorcycle foot-rests. Maybe the bikers can use these instead of ruining a historic knife.

 

Thanks for all you do for the hobby.

 

Chris

[militariaone]

Greetings Chris,

 

Thank you, for your kind compliment. I concur with your thoughts, as the current bevy of custom made repo knuckle foot rests and kicker pedals (see below) are not too accurate to the originals, so if these latest creations hailing from the Great Northwest save a few originals from artisans' conversions I'm all for it.

 

V/r Lance

 

 

[sven hassel]

My dear Militarione i see today at the market of my littl town in Italy a possible LF & C. US 1918. How are signed tne blade iit will be original?

[militariaone]

My dear Militarione i see today at the market of my littl town in Italy a possible LF & C. US 1918. How are signed tne blade iit will be original?

Greetings Sven,

 

If it is a L.F.&C. made variant with its original blade, the blade would be unmarked. However, as these knives' blades were quite prone to tips' breakage, they are occasionally to be found with replaced Au Lion's (lion marked French made blades). I hope that helps. If not, review post #6 here http://www.warrelics.eu/forum/ww1-allies-great-britain-france-usa-etc-1914-1918/u-s-m1918-mk-i-trench-knife-414102/ for what right looks like for an L.F.&C. Variant.

 

Buona Fortuna!

 

V/r Lance

[sven hassel]

Many thanks! The blade isn't AU LION but whit an encomplete surname english.

The scabbard isn' the original. So I don't buy anything (also for legal problems with italian legislation)

[militariaone]

Greetings all,

These silly "overseas" contraptions were amusing until one showed up on US eBay today. Yes, it will shortly be caught and removed by the eBay “police,” but the point is they have arrived. They are made from surplused Swedish Mauser carbine M94/14-bayonets & scabbards. They have been originating from UK based auction houses. As they emigrate, they will surely come with a convincing “story.”

V/r Lance

 

[militariaone]

Greetings all,

Beware of item number 629583308 currently on Gunbroker. This offering, is a mixed (original's & reproduction's) parts affair. It possesses an original L.F.&C. variant's handle and reproduction's blade. Someone is about to pay some good money for a free lesson, I do hope it's not you.

 

V/r Lance

 

 

[militariaone]

Greetings all,

This knife currently being offered for sale on various sites is a similar (reproduction's blade) parts knife as viewed in the previous post. In this case, the seller has added an original scabbard to make their subterfuge more complete. Sad thing is, this individual has sold off several complete originals (from their own collection) within the last few months and should know better.

V/r Lance

[militariaone]

Greetings all,

 

With fellow forum member Cromwell’s clarion's call in reference to Atlanta Cutlery’s latest reproduction M1918 Mk.I’s offering see here http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/298562-lf-c-mark-i-atlanta-cutlery-co-repro-fake/ I thought it would be advisable to create a post showing the aforementioned new made scabbard offered with Atlantic Cutlery’s ensemble pictured alongside two originals.

 

Currently, the reproduction scabbards are not offered separately for sale, but no doubt they will eventually get on to eBay and likely be offered as originals.

 

The intent here is to assist in determining which scabbard is which however, I won’t bother with subtle differences (i.e. size differences of belt holders’ rivets or depth of manufacture’s logo stampings), just the two major visual differences. The first is the lack of the two crimps on the rear of the scabbard’s top side (see paired white circles below). The reproduction in the center does not possess these crimpings. The other difference, is the size difference of the dimpled areas on the scabbard’s front and rear (see paired white & red circles below).

 

V/r Lance

[militariaone]

Here are the front sides for comparison. BTW, these reproduction scabbards and knives are made in India (I assume by Windlass).

V/r Lance

 

 

[militariaone]

And a close up of the logos and aforementioned crimpings (see the white circles below).

 

V/r Lance

 

[tarheeltim]

Great information - thank you!

[militariaone]

Greetings all,

Here's a pretty decent (at first glance) reproduction Au Lion variant being offered from France. This is the first one of these I have viewed and may be a one-off. The lion in the trademark possesses a pig's snout, but the shape of the blade is markedly better than most fakes. The handle is wrong too, but the scabbard might very well be original:-) However, it all could be yours for a BIN of 890.00 Euros & 22.00 Euros for shipping https://www.naturabuy.fr/Poignard-U-S-1918-au-lion--item-4426603.html

Oink, Oink, or perhaps, Groin-groin?

Lance

[SKIPH]

Lance-Thanks for showing. The scabbard would have me fooled, since I do not have one to compare. On the other hand, due to the lack

of available MK1 scabbards I would purchase one at a reasonable price, and tag it as a repro. They are very good repros. Windless

does a decent job reproducing edged weapons, although unfortunate for collectors. Thanks again for the heads-up. SKIP

[militariaone]

Greetings SkipH,

That scabbard (post #89) is likely genuine, and on second thought, the blade could be from a reworked French M1916. Funny you mentioned the Windlass scabbards (see posts #85 through #87), there's one, which has been artificially aged currently on eBay right now and look what it's going for 173006915481. The seller even has it correctly listed under the "reproductions" category. I wonder how high that new made scabbard will go.

 

V/r Lance

[militariaone]

Greetings SkipH,

 

That scabbard (post #89) is likely genuine, and on second thought, the blade could be from a reworked French M1916. Funny you mentioned the Windlass scabbards (see posts #85 through #87), there's one, which has been artificially aged currently on eBay right now and look what it's going for 173006915481. The seller even has it correctly listed under the "reproductions" category. I wonder how high that new made scabbard will go.

 

V/r Lance

 

Above mentioned lone Windlass scabbard closed for $338.00. For $160.00, the buyer could have received a knife in addition to the scabbard by purchasing it directly from Atlanta Cutlery. Let the silliness begin.

 

Regards,

 

Lance

[militariaone]

Greetings all,

Well, we can't exactly say we didn't see this day coming. Here's an eBay offering, I viewed today. Note the seller's included description (on the very bottom) and yes, it is being offered in the "Original" items' category. "Been in my family for a long time" what, like a year? This is a knife/scabbard that member Cromwell discusses in the link in post #85 of this thread. The below reproduction has been artificially aged to make the item appear older (far older in this case) than the items actually are. Buyer beware.

 

Best,

 

V/r Lance

 

[militariaone]

This sold yesterday, 15 minutes worth of searching this or other related threads would have saved the buyer from making an expensive mistake. This is not an original handle

 

Best,

 

V/r Lance

 

 

 

 

[militariaone]

Greetings all,

 

This example offered today, has a reproduction handle attached to an original Au Lion's blade. Initially, all appears well, but a close look at the "U" in the US 1918 shows it is shorter than the rest of the fonts (see next post's image vicinity of the Red Line). There's a lack of overall depth in the fonts as well.

 

Stay Sharp,

 

V/r Lance

 

[militariaone]

And the close-up image of the above post knife's handle. There are other things wrong with this handle, but let's stick with the obvious for now.

 

Best,

 

V/r Lance

[stevel48]

Heres a recent lfc find. Im not sure about this one. The last finger hole seems to have an odd shape.

[militariaone]

Greetings Steve,

 

Agreed, on that last finger's stall being oddly shaped. That said, my larger concern is the two very noticeable Au Lion-esque casting lines on the handle's back-strap (see red arrows below). I've never viewed those on an L.F.&C.'s variant before and too, there are more than a few casting's voids (small holes) than I am used to viewing on a L.F.&C.'s variant (they were famously known for their sand casting's prowess/level of finish). My supposition is this is a very well (as in scary-good) reproduced handle paired with an original blade, skull crusher's nut and scabbard (i.e. a part's knife). There is one more slight flaw involving the handle, but as a general officer once advised "don't tell everything."

 

No doubt the seller's (if you don't already own it) next comment will be that it's a prototype or rare variant, yes quite possible, but without some reputable provenance I'd pass on the privilege of owning it. IMHO the handle is a very well executed reproduction, which someone has gone great lengths to age.

 

Best,

 

V/r Lance

 

 

[stevel48]

Great spots. I dont own it and i thought those lines were odd for an lfc. The casting is a bit rough and all of the dings in the handle look to be from the same tool. Steering clear of this one on Ebay

[militariaone]

Greetings all,

 

Another new made (India) example, being listed today under "original items" with the standard "I know nothing about this knife" garbola in the item's description. The shenanigans continue.

 

Best,

 

V/r Lance