Jump to content

IS THIS WING GOOD? Post your requests here!


John Cooper
 Share

Recommended Posts

The Rooster
On 5/21/2024 at 7:58 PM, Threewood said:

I bought it. Looks good to me but I'll see once it arrives and I soak in in baking powder and aluminum foil. The two clutches look original, too.

Screenshot_20240521_163700_eBay.jpg.30b38a103cbfee1c32b584b5d70e0385.jpgScreenshot_20240519_185706_eBay.jpg.35ce9be64eca8b567c9f373fa489f53a.jpgScreenshot_20240519_185646_eBay.jpg.d5d82f8b9d2388258b00af48b9337454.jpg

Looks like the real deal.

What do the posts look like? How are they attached?

Pools of solder or electronic welded?

Will be interesting to see how it cleans up.

Im guessing the brass look is from the lighting.

Still the verdigris is strange...?

Posts attached how?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Threewood
6 hours ago, The Rooster said:

Looks like the real deal.

What do the posts look like? How are they attached?

Pools of solder or electronic welded?

Will be interesting to see how it cleans up.

Im guessing the brass look is from the lighting.

Still the verdigris is strange...?

Posts attached how?

I took a chance as the price was good. I'll post additional pictures when I receive it tomorrow. I am guessing it was stored poorly with other dissimilar metals that could have transferred to this wing. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Threewood
On 5/23/2024 at 11:55 PM, The Rooster said:

Looks like the real deal.

What do the posts look like? How are they attached?

Pools of solder or electronic welded?

Will be interesting to see how it cleans up.

Im guessing the brass look is from the lighting.

Still the verdigris is strange...?

Posts attached how?

Received it, cleaned it and happy for what I paid. However, the posts appear to be nail head style. How early do these appear on wings? It seems they are associated with post war wings. But these are sterling, which  is associated with wartime production.20240525_185257.jpg.92a338c270214526f1f6df4eb680c2aa.jpg20240525_185525.jpg.684cc6090fdd26d895becca460e6f352.jpg20240525_185249.jpg.62a1cdf02632934535826558de6c8c1e.jpg20240525_185226.jpg.918c34e98c9bdf381beb2623985e27fc.jpg20240525_185324.jpg.3714722d9dae32448023fbe1089217d5.jpg20240525_185214.jpg.ed84e49194daa19c64c6faefce4b78c5.jpg

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Rooster
1 hour ago, Threewood said:

Received it, cleaned it and happy for what I paid. However, the posts appear to be nail head style. How early do these appear on wings? It seems they are associated with post war wings. But these are sterling, which  is associated with wartime production.20240525_185257.jpg.92a338c270214526f1f6df4eb680c2aa.jpg20240525_185525.jpg.684cc6090fdd26d895becca460e6f352.jpg20240525_185249.jpg.62a1cdf02632934535826558de6c8c1e.jpg20240525_185226.jpg.918c34e98c9bdf381beb2623985e27fc.jpg20240525_185324.jpg.3714722d9dae32448023fbe1089217d5.jpg20240525_185214.jpg.ed84e49194daa19c64c6faefce4b78c5.jpg

 

Thats a nice wing! I dont know about when nail head posts came about. ?

I was hoping to see hand soldered posts and thats what they look like!

Some people are against cleaning silver wings. But the baking soda aluminum foil method

works without scratching the wing so to me its a winner. Some people also think that

"Patina" "Tarnish" .... "Silver Sulfide".... protects the siver. I have read that it actually puts small pits in the silver over time.

Look at the small pits in the wing. Thats what "Patina" does over time.

Nice wing. And in another post on Liason wings, Patrick said that they are more rare than glider wings.

Nice! Cleaned up good too!

I dont blame you a bit for cleaning it. Compare the before and after. And historically speaking.

polished silver wings from WW2 are period correct. No pilot or aircrew member showed up wearing tarnished wing I guarantee.

There were monetary fines involved for infractions like that.

 

Screenshot_20240519_185646_eBay.jpg.d5d82f8b9d2388258b00af48b9337454.jpg

20240525_185214.jpg.ed84e49194daa19c64c6faefce4b78c5.jpg

20240525_185226.jpg.918c34e98c9bdf381beb2623985e27fc.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Threewood

Thank you. I like to think that the pilot would want his wings kept in nice shape. They would have been proud of earning them so I feel it a duty to keep them clean.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

cwnorma
1 hour ago, Threewood said:

...the posts appear to be nail head style. How early do these appear on wings? It seems they are associated with post war wings. But these are sterling, which  is associated with wartime production.

Clutches began to appear on wings in the 1930s.  Official AAF orders for wings began to change from pins to clutches in late 42 through 43 with deliveries following.  By 1945, all issued wings were clutch back.  Many Airmen preferred clutch back insignia for their thicker "Class-A" and "Ike" jackets as they sat "closer" to the uniform providing for a neater overall appearance.  Pin back wings continued to be available for purchase in the PX through the end of the war and were generally the preferred attachments for the thinner material of shirts.  Occasionally, Airmen would have a jeweler replace pin backs with clutches and vise versa.  Pin back insignia continued to be widely available for purchase until the 1970s when long pins seem to have mostly fallen out of favor.

 

Prior to WW2 better quality military insignia was made from sterling silver or gold metal.  Cheaper quality insignia was made from brass or bronze.  During the war, copper and brass were strategic commodities, but silver was not.  Silver, with similar properties, became a replacement for copper and brass in many industrial applications.  Due to silver's wartime industrial use, it became harder for smaller jewelry manufacturers to secure supplies of sterling silver (a luxury item) so lower grades of silver (coin silver or just "silver") were sometimes substituted during the war.  Once the war ended, better quality insignia again was made in sterling silver.  Even today, for those who desire to purchase it, sterling silver and gold insignia can still be found.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

pfrost

Nice wings.  Liaison pilot wings are hard to find for AECo.  Most of the ones I have seen have actually been clutch back. I have no issues with the "nail head" clutches.  Sometimes collectors can get too caught up in the minutia of things.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

digi-shots

Does this aerial gunner look ok?
 

Its a one piece pinback that looks similar to a clutch back AG wing on Bob Schwartz site.. same or similar feather pattern with rounded wing tips

 

No maker mark  but there is a faint raised Sterling mark.

 

Vintage original or fake copy?

 

Thanks for looking

 

 

IMG_0118.jpeg

IMG_0119.jpeg

IMG_0120.jpeg

IMG_0121.jpeg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

pfrost

sadly it looks like a cast fake. Not sure why, as these are rather common.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Threewood

I have that pattern wing in my collection, clutch back. Told it was very common, maker unknown. That wing you posted looks soft and round on the edges. Picture of mine for reference.

Screenshot_20240530_080705_Gallery.jpg.ca5cc8d344bfa811c866fb8544d2a6c7.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...
MedrickMilitaria

I don't have much faith in this set, but I know next to nothing about wings, so...

imj632.jpg.535f827861a4b9526c6edf77142cbc8d.jpgimj635.jpg.6b6c54e0c09bdc05e3efdf7351d41cf8.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5thwingmarty

Looks like a cheap souvenir, gift shop piece, nothing issued to service members.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

MedrickMilitaria
18 hours ago, 5thwingmarty said:

Looks like a cheap souvenir, gift shop piece, nothing issued to service members.

That’s what I thought, thank you!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

pfrost

There are a few threads on these on the forum.  Like Marty said, not service related.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Threewood

How about these Flight Surgeon wings? Sterling marked, one piece, pin back. Maker and ww2 or post ww2?Screenshot_20240616_175001_eBay.jpg.b5b13db91067a4b04dabba38864ba9dd.jpgScreenshot_20240616_175020_eBay.jpg.a8919e465502f0a6f7235d82896b76fd.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

bschwartz

They look ok to me although somewhat a crude strike. They match this one pictured on my website https://www.ww2wings.com/wings/usaaf/flightsurgeon/presleyclutchflightsurgeon.shtml I'll copy the photos into the post as well. Main difference is the one on my site is not sterling marked and is gold on the front and the back. Most of the gold flight surgeon wings are gold on both sides. Yours is a bit odd in that regard. The gold flight surgeon and flight nurse wings were not in use for very long before they were reverted to silver like the rest of the Army Air Force wings. I would place these in the WW2 timeframe but as Patrick has pointed out in other posts some of these wings continued to be made after the war. There were no hard cutoff dates in August of 1945. The gold would definitely be WW2 timeframe. Maker is not known at least not that I'm aware of.

 

image.png.3a040783b9cb7eea81e211b4db915706.png

image.png.a2d1f49e0b9099284c7a790a05cc05fb.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Threewood

Thank you. These are currently listed on ebay. I thought maybe the gold color was the lighting or silver tarnish as the back is dark. Seller also has a bombadier wing that looks gold in color.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

bschwartz

That very well could be as  you'll often see that the lacquer on some wings turns to a gold hue. And it could just be that the camera and lighting are causing a trick as to the true color. But if you're interested in them I would definitely ask if they're gold or that is just the lighting. It seems pretty dark to be just yellowed lacquer but I've seen weirder things. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5thwingmarty

I looked at this wing and the seller's other listed wings, and the other sterling wings they have don't have an overall gold tint so I am guessing the tint non this wing is just as Bob suggested being from old yellowed lacquer.  A different seller has a nice looking actual gold-finished one listed too.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

digi-shots

Can anyone tell me if this Command Pilot Wing is original vintage or recast copy.  I don’t see any frost on the surface but it could be worn off.  The pins on the back look like standard nailheads.  The wing measures 2 7/8”.  
 

Thanks for looking.

IMG_0153.jpeg

IMG_0154.jpeg

IMG_0155.jpeg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

At first blush, it loos ok to me, from what I can see.  Sometimes, you can look TOO HARD at a wing, and all the little things and bits and bobs start popping up.  Although it also has some signs of casting.  As for the size, at 2 7/8th inches, I think that is too small for these wings, which is also a sign of casting.

 

Compare your wing to the ones shown in this thread as a start.

 

Interestingly, I doubt the clutchback Josten command wing is actually WWII vintage (more than likely its a 50-60's made wing).  It is WAY too common for a WWII command pilot wing (remember, none of the WWII period trained pilots would have reached the Command Pilot wing rating criteria until after the KW).

 

There are much rarer Josten pin-back wings (pilot, senior, and command pilot) that have pin-backs and slightly different hallmark placing and fonts.

 

ALL WASP (AKA the ones with the shield of Athena or "lozenge" wings) are josten marked and clutchback.

 

It's not hard to find Josten's senior and command pilot wings in clutchback.  So I am not sure why they would cast one and then put the clutchs on it?  But you can find lots of other threads on the forum talking about Josten.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

digi-shots

Patrick thanks for your comments and link to the Josten thread.  It was a very good read with lots of great info.
 

Here are a couple more pics of the edges… it looks like a seam?  I see no file marks.

 

 

 

 

IMG_0234.jpeg

IMG_0236.jpeg

IMG_0237.jpeg

IMG_0239.jpeg

IMG_0233.jpeg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

With better photos, I now strongly suspect its a casting of a more common command pilot wing.  Sorry, but that is just my opinion based on what I can see in your photos.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

digi-shots

Thanks, Patrick.  I have a box of about a dozen or so wings,,.. most of them have been given to me over the years,  I’ll eventually part with them but don’t want to pass off any bad ones.  This will go into the “reject box”.

 

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...