IS THIS WING GOOD? Post your requests here!

[cwnorma]

1 hour ago, rathbonemuseum.com said:

I think you already know the answer

- Link pattern with BB&B hallmark

- Heavy chromatic staining due to chemical and heat application on back

- applied heavy US

- whole thing appears to be made of some brass based mystery metal

- relatively modern findings compared to purported age of the wing

 

This wing was made on purpose to deceive in my opinion

Tod's assessment is perfect.  I don't have much to add except some thoughts:

 

I think the badge above was a product of Alan Beckman's active imagination...

 

Wartime NA badges with an added US existed.  This is not one of them.  In all my years collecting I have encountered two similar badges (one Robbins and one Tiffany) that I considered to be real and both those had sterling silver US expertly applied by a jeweler.  

 

Two examples is hardly a base to draw conclusions from but I believe real ones do not represent, "HYPER RARE FIRST DESIGN Blah, Blah, Blah..." as they are often hyped.  The truth is likely far more pedestrian: As they were strictly non-regulation, a few Individual NAs individually had their badges altered during the 1917-1918 period by local jewelers so they would better match the Army Air Service design.  That is likely all.

 

The key to one of these potentially being real is the base badge.  Obviously this one is a stinker.  Though marked so, it is not a product of BB&B.  The named, engraved, 18K Tiffany with an added US clearly was real.  

 

Now that I think about it, I have seen a number of these fake badges but never encountered a real BB&B type badge with an added US.  Have any of you? 

 

Chris

[5thwingmarty]

I would like to compare this in hand with another Link/Amcraft NA wing.  It might have been a good wing that was "enhanced" by adding the US to the front and the BB&B to the back.  To me it would have stood a better chance of being a believably period modified piece if the BB&B hadn't been added.

[pfrost]

Here are some comparisons with the "Bronze BB&B" USN Naval Aviator wing.

 

I agree it appears to be the W Link pattern (later attributed to AMCRAFT).  Its always been murky to me, but apparently sometime in the late 1920's (pr 30's I don't know for sure), AMCRAFT bought the Link dies.  Again, while I don't doubt that, its hard to know for sure in the absence of any documentation.  The Link dies seemed to have had either a flat un-adorned back or have had the distinctive snowflake pattern.  That pattern was seen on AMCRAFT wings and insignia. 

 

Over the years, a couple of salesman samples have shown up with AMCRAFT/Link wings.  Cliff posted on such salesman board, and I recently picked up a handful of badges that I also believe came from a salesman sample board.  These badges were made in various ratings and finishes and were probably intended to show customers what type of wings/finishes were available. 

 

Here are some of mine, including the USN aviator wing (and a gilt observer wing).  There is also a nice snowflake pattern version in sterling.

 

It seems to me, in comparison with the "WWI USN wing" above, that the Link patterns show a finer deal of feathering and higher quality of strike.

[pfrost]

In comparison (and borrowed from Ron Burkey's site just to illustrate), a BB&B bronze wing that does probably date from WWI time period.  The font is different compared to the AUCTION wing.  The catch is more typical of this era (aka Blanchard or Tiffany catch). And the feathering is different.

[kristoffer]

What's to say about these?

Good or bad.

 

Thanks for looking

[rathbonemuseum.com]

I don't like it

- letters are too crisp and even

- has a band pin retainer vs a wire loop

[Pryo]

I like it, but I’m a bit out of my element here

[jd65]

What do you all think of these Technical Observer wings?

[jeff41st]

Maker is Williams and Anderson. I think the consensus is that these technical observer wings were made for the collector market probably in the '70s and '80s.

 

More information on these wings  can be found here

https://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/378647-technical-observer-wings/ 

 

 

 

[Jeeper97]

Thoughts on this winged boot pin? 

[manayunkman]

35 minutes ago, Jeeper97 said:

Thoughts on this winged boot pin? 

I can’t asses it’s originality but I can say that it looks German made.

[Pryo]

Wanted to ask on these 

[jeff41st]

I don't see anything that would raise any concerns with me. I think they are good.

[Pryo]

Thank You!

[Pryo]

Interwar? I thought it was a H&H mark with how sterling is written, but I can’t find any exact matches, and the catch is an earlier style

[pfrost]

It does look to have the characteristics of an early Adams style wing that could date from the 1920's up to later into the 1940's.  No real way to know for sure but I wouldn't quibble too much as it being from that 20's-30's time period.

 

While not 100% there are a few things to look for:

1) Exactly 3 inches long, and not the larger 3 1/16 or so WWII vintage wings.

2) The little space between the "grill" on the front of the wing is smooth and doesn't have tiny little lines.

3) There are 6 of the pales (the vertical grills) on the wing, instead of 7 (with a center piece and 3 on either side).

 

The early Adams style wings tend to show all three of the above characteristics (but not always).

 

Lesser characteristics are the pin and catch.

This wing rings all the bells for an early wing.  I would guess that the STERLING in an arc like this could be attributed to Orber but it could also be one of the other early companies.

 

Nice wing

 

[zk4298militaria]

What do you think? Couldn’t get a good picture in the dark Antique shop. Guy wants $200.

[pfrost]

Hard to say but I see some things I like. Look at the hinge and pin. Small Sterling font. It has potential. But that is just a guess as these wings are often faked 

[zk4298militaria]

On 3/16/2024 at 12:40 PM, pfrost said:

Hard to say but I see some things I like. Look at the hinge and pin. Small Sterling font. It has potential. But that is just a guess as these wings are often faked 

My thinking exactly, it’s got wear but is the wear real. If it’s good should I jump on it at $200?

[rathbonemuseum.com]

I can't tell you for certain from these photos whether you should buy it but it does look promising and at $200 would be a bargain if it proves correct. It needs better light and more photos. Compare to others here: https://ww2wings.com/wings/usaaf/usaafairshipballoon.shtml 

 

[Threewood]

Hello. I would like an opinion on these two wings. The top gunner wing is stamped sterling and has a reversed N.S. Meyer crest. Pin opens 180 degrees. I believe this one is a restamp after reading several posts here.

 

The bottom is a navigator wing. Small raised Sterling mark, no maker mark. It is highly polished. Clutch back.

 

Thank you.

 

 

[bschwartz]

I would agree that the gunner wing looks like a Meyer restrike.  The navigator wing looks fine to me.

 

[pconrad02]

Yes - Top is a re-strike - bottom is fine

[Threewood]

Live and learn, thank you!

[zook]

Hello Gents - my first post on the forum!  …. I have been studying the links on fakes and have looked at a few reference sites (and one book), but I wanted to share this WW2 Navigator wings I had purchased, and verify that I did OK.  I don’t see any tell-tale marks of casting.   HOWEVER … after reviewing a lot of stories and lessons learned on this site, I realize I have a lot to learn and experience will only come with practice (handling pieces) and reading.    Anyway, I would appreciate any comments or feedback.  Thank you, Dan