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Is this wing good? Post you advice requests here!


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The Rooster

I did my research. Thats the best way. In my opinion. That is whats worked for me.

 

This forum is a fountain of knowledge.

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The Rooster
4 minutes ago, Basic Rifleman said:

I'm not sure anyone hinted that he should. I think what most have said is it's important to do research, whatever that looks like, before buying an item.

Im just putting in my 2 cents BR.

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donaldnol
18 minutes ago, The Rooster said:

I get why someone who finds a wing that seems extra special thats for sale on ebay, would not post it on here to ask opinions before the sale. It may be something found that few people have seen due to it being miss marked or in the wrong category. Maybe the person does not want to announce its there.

Its best to search this forum and search Bobs site and glean out as much info and pics ro study before bidding on a wing.

This forum and Bobs site and sites that sell ww2 wings are the best place to research before putting any money into it.

When I was a novice I made a few real nice scores early on, and I got burned a couple times too.

Best to spend the time if you find a wing you want, to look over authentic examples on the web and compare them to whats being auctioned.

Research. I found what looked like an ATC half wing radio operator wing going for $100.00. I thought it was real but I didnt know and I didnt want to post it

here and ask questions because no body was bidding on it. I didnt want to attract attention to it.

I got the wing and it was a real one. Worth 5 times what I paid, so I dont blame the OP for not asking here first.

 

The way I knew the ATC wing was the real deal was because of this great forum.

 

this site https://www.militaryaviationartifacts.com/wings.htm

 

Bobs great site,

 

https://www.ww2wings.com/

 

and flying tiger antiques and others..

 

I did my research.

 

i also look on the M A A page to

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The Rooster

One more thing that I have noticed about the wing section on this forum.  Even before I joined I noticed it.

Wing collectors are Gentlemen and Gentlewomen. Ive had many many good experiences in the wings forum.

There is another forum on here that is very prone to disagreements and downright hostility.

 

But the Wings forum is not that.

I've learned a lot here and still learning and I want to thank you all that have helped me along.

Saved me many times.

 

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cwnorma

Some forums actually have rules about commenting on ongoing auctions or sales.  As a young collector, I was firmly against those restrictions.  After many years in the hobby, I now fully understand why such guidelines come into being.

 

Over the years, I developed a personal policy.  I will not publicly comment on any piece that is currently on the docket for auction or up on the barrow for sale.  After having been threatened (police reports were filed), I have come to the belief that it is just not worth the trouble.  If someone wants my opinion, I will happily provide it --  Send me an email or PM.

 

I've learned that reasons are as varied as people.  Some are looking to score a diamond in the rough.  Others are trying to fleece the unsuspecting.  In the internet-enabled era of instant gratification, some just want to "crowd source" knowledge and not deal with the perceived hassle of learning themselves.  

 

With respect to the wings I deal with, the prices are not trivial.  So if someone wants purchase advice, I will happily provide my opinions.  But I will no longer do so publicly.

 

 

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Allan H.
17 minutes ago, The Rooster said:

One more thing that I have noticed about the wing section on this forum.  Even before I joined I noticed it.

Wing collectors are Gentlemen and Gentlewomen. Ive had many many good experiences in the wings forum.

There is another forum on here that is very prone to disagreements and downright hostility.

 

But the Wings forum is not that.

I've learned a lot here and still learning and I want to thank you all that have helped me along.

Saved me many times.

 

Many of the "old time" wing collectors used to deal with true giants in the hobby like the late G. Duncan Campbell. Duncan was a true sage in the world of wing collecting and wrote some of the earliest references on the subject. I recall as a young collector meeting him and asking him questions. Duncan NEVER brushed me off. He always gave me his full, undivided attention, and he treated me seriously and gave me respect. Here I am some 45 years after first meeting him, and I always try to treat other collectors as peers. I treat others as they treat me. You will find that most wing collectors are cut from the same cloth, and treat others like Duncan Campbell treated us.

 

There is a faction of wing collectors that seem to have come out of the ranks of the Nazi collectors, and they treat others like potential marks. They don't seem to have any problems passing fakes on to other collectors and they tend to try to prey on the unknowing. I would encourage you to ask questions, and to provide input when you can. A close-knit fraternity of collectors is the best way to keep fakes out of the hobby.

 

Allan

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Noooooo Chris... I wanna know, and I want to know NOW!  Tell me what to believe so I can believe what I think!  LOL.


But hey, don't believe me.... This is kind of where my reference book collection petered out.  I think if you HAVE to have a reference, the ones in bold are the ones to have.

 

Cambell, J. Duncan.  Aviation Badges and Insignia of the United States 1913-1946.  1977.  The Triangle Press. 

 

Carroll, Warren.  Eagles Recalled.  Air Force Wings of Canada, Great Britain and the British Commonwealth 1913-1945.  1997.  Schiffer Publishing Ltd.  Atglen, PA. 

 

Chalif, Don and Bender, Roger. Military Pilot & Aircrew Badges of the World (1870-Present). Vol 1, Europe (Albania-Hungary).  1982.  R. J. Bender Publishing. 

 

Fitzsimmons, Charles.  Thirty years of U.S. Army Pilot Wings.  1917-1947.  1994. 

 

Huff, Russ.  Wings of World War 2.  and various others, including semi-annual Wings and Things news letter...mostly published. in the mid 1980's. 

 

Maguire, Jon.  Silver Wings, Pinks and Greens.  1996.  Schiffer Publishing Ltd.  Atglen, PA. 

 

Maguire, Jon.  More Silver Wings, Pinks and Greens.  1997.  Schiffer Publishing Ltd.  Atglen, PA.

 

Morris, Terry. United States Army Air Service Wing Badges - Uniforms and Insignia 1913-1918. Scott A. Duff Publications

 

Rosignoli, Guido.  Air Force Badges and Insignia of World War 2.  1976. Arco Publishing Co. New York. 

 

Bob's Schwartz website:  http://www.ww2wings.com/

 

It's funny but over the years my name and stuff have sometimes shown up on eBay.  One guy harvested my images to use on his auction (I had to send him to the eBay police).  Someone else called me a "well respected expert, who told me these wings were perfect" (I'm NOT and  didn't)  and someone else called me a "pernicious idiotic fat bastard forum blow hard" or some such (actually he was probably pretty correct! LOL).  I have no problems providing my opinions, in fact Im like that drunk guy pulled over by the cops... I have the right to remain silent, but not the ability! (that is a Ron White joke).


We used to have a forum member who was notorious for spending crazy money on an auction and then asking us if they were good or not AFTER he bought them. This behavior (at least in part) got him banned.

 

Many times, if someone asks about something on an auction and NO ONE replies, you may want to assume that many of us are ALSO watching that auction and are muttering to the computer screen... "Ixnay on this Ebay uctionacay, for crying out loud!"

 

 

 

 

 

 

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cwnorma
32 minutes ago, pfrost said:

Many times, if someone asks about something on an auction and NO ONE replies, you may want to assume that many of us are ALSO watching that auction and are muttering to the computer screen... "Ixnay on this Ebay uctionacay, for crying out loud!"

Truth!

🤣😂😄

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rustywings
2 hours ago, pfrost said:

 

 ....:This is kind of where my reference book collection petered out.  I think if you HAVE to have a reference, the ones in bold are the ones to have.

 

Cambell, J. Duncan.  Aviation Badges and Insignia of the United States 1913-1946.  1977.  The Triangle Press. 

 

Carroll, Warren.  Eagles Recalled.  Air Force Wings of Canada, Great Britain and the British Commonwealth 1913-1945.  1997.  Schiffer Publishing Ltd.  Atglen, PA. 

 

Chalif, Don and Bender, Roger. Military Pilot & Aircrew Badges of the World (1870-Present). Vol 1, Europe (Albania-Hungary).  1982.  R. J. Bender Publishing. 

 

Fitzsimmons, Charles.  Thirty years of U.S. Army Pilot Wings.  1917-1947.  1994. 

 

Huff, Russ.  Wings of World War 2.  and various others, including semi-annual Wings and Things news letter...mostly published. in the mid 1980's. 

 

Maguire, Jon.  Silver Wings, Pinks and Greens.  1996.  Schiffer Publishing Ltd.  Atglen, PA. 

 

Maguire, Jon.  More Silver Wings, Pinks and Greens.  1997.  Schiffer Publishing Ltd.  Atglen, PA.

 

Morris, Terry. United States Army Air Service Wing Badges - Uniforms and Insignia 1913-1918. Scott A. Duff Publications

 

Rosignoli, Guido.  Air Force Badges and Insignia of World War 2.  1976. Arco Publishing Co. New York. 

 

Bob's Schwartz website:  http://www.ww2wings.com/

 

 

If you’re desirous of collecting WWI US Aviation badges, I would also suggest adding a copy of “Flight Badges of the Allied Nations, 1914 - 1918” by CDR. Robert Pandis USNR (Ret.) to your reference library.

 

As with all of the reference books listed above, this last book has a few mistakes and oversights... but it also has a wealth of terrific close-up images of authentic WWI era wings and is excellent for comparison studies.

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blind pew

The tone and demeanor on a site is dictated from the top down. Like a corporation, if the CEO and executives are positive, fostering people, the rest of the company will be the same. The converse is true as well. 

 

Chris and Patrick are very knowledgeable, but also very patient and kind. The great thing is that you never feel like an idiot (although on many occasions that has been true on my part) presenting anything you find interesting or posing a question. Chris probably has the best US wings collection in the US, but never flaunts it and uses his collection for educational purposes, not bragging rights. 

 

I have never seen a personal "scrap" in the wings section. Even if fakes are presented, the guys in the wing section break it to someone gently and try to make the situation a learning experience. In the only financial transaction I have had on the wings section, Patrick was trying to give away money to me, rather than engaging in price gouging and squabbling over scheckles like I have witnessed in some deals.  Nice folks indeed!

 

Never ran across a jerk in the wings area. 

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There has been turmoil on the forum. Yes, even I, have been put into forum time out for being a chowderhead and dare I say it... A jerk!  There have been a few others who were  banned from participating AND at least one from even being mentioned by name....  JoeVoldemort (AKA HeWhoShallNotBeNamed), I am looking at you!  --I know HWSNBN lurks here because he periodically sends me email billet doux warning me to stop.

 

But the moderators are quick to tamp down on any of our shenanigans and the rank and file folks are great.  Best Damn Forum On the Net.

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donaldnol
1 hour ago, pfrost said:

There has been turmoil on the forum. Yes, even I, have been put into forum time out for being a chowderhead and dare I say it... A jerk!  There have been a few others who were  banned from participating AND at least one from even being mentioned by name....  JoeVoldemort (AKA HeWhoShallNotBeNamed), I am looking at you!  --I know HWSNBN lurks here because he periodically sends me email billet doux warning me to stop.

 

But the moderators are quick to tamp down on any of our shenanigans and the rank and file folks are great.  Best Damn Forum On the Net.

once this year i asked around how do you take varnish or lacquer off of a sterling wing you told me to use a childs eraser, i did and it ruined every thing, but theres no blame here my fault i cleaned it up the best way i could all the finish is gone. looks better anyway, your a okay guy to me when it comes down thought i listen.

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dmar836

Seems a good time to vent. There are some members on this forum(not in the wings forum) who are gradually becoming "experts" by their own admission. In the wings forum discussions don't stop with, "... I've handled examples of every maker and I can tell you..." or, "... I've been doing this for decades and I can tell you..." Unfortunately, this "glasses on the tip of the nose"-type of expert squashes all discussion as secondary to his claims. It's a real turn off. Seldom do the experts say what they see that forms their opinions. Could just be conjecture but those offering reasons for why something might be questioned are shot down with no countering reasons other than "years of experience." In a world of such open and even celebrated narcissism I should not be surprised but somehow I am.

In nursing I learned that one documents observations by writing things like, "...the wound/patient/family appears to be..." or "...as evidenced by..." rather than saying something "is". This allows a way out in a sense(legally) and gives room for multiple opinions without another having to retract their observations.

It's a struggle in the well- established ranks of collecting to avoid a pecking order or cliques but trampling discussion to protect what one already knows is counter productive for the hobby.

I haven't met very many but wing guys do appear to be on the up and up - not sizing you up as you approach their table.

Dave 

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pconrad02
18 hours ago, pfrost said:

There has been turmoil on the forum. Yes, even I, have been put into forum time out for being a chowderhead and dare I say it... A jerk!  There have been a few others who were  banned from participating AND at least one from even being mentioned by name....  JoeVoldemort (AKA HeWhoShallNotBeNamed), I am looking at you!  --I know HWSNBN lurks here because he periodically sends me email billet doux warning me to stop.

 

But the moderators are quick to tamp down on any of our shenanigans and the rank and file folks are great.  Best Damn Forum On the Net.

Patrick , that's hilarious- and he continues to send those to myself and others ever since he purchased/ re-registered the Lux trademark. Ah, the stories we "can't" tell....

 

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rathbonemuseum.com
On 4/10/2022 at 4:47 PM, pfrost said:

There has been turmoil on the forum. Yes, even I, have been put into forum time out for being a chowderhead and dare I say it... A jerk!  There have been a few others who were  banned from participating AND at least one from even being mentioned by name....  JoeVoldemort (AKA HeWhoShallNotBeNamed), I am looking at you!  --I know HWSNBN lurks here because he periodically sends me email billet doux warning me to stop.

 

But the moderators are quick to tamp down on any of our shenanigans and the rank and file folks are great.  Best Damn Forum On the Net.

 

 

Thank goodness he has lost my email. He has republished just about everything i've written or photographed. And sits at his tables at the big shows smiling and laughing.

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blind pew
On 4/11/2022 at 10:25 AM, dmar836 said:

Seems a good time to vent. There are some members on this forum(not in the wings forum) who are gradually becoming "experts" by their own admission. In the wings forum discussions don't stop with, "... I've handled examples of every maker and I can tell you..." or, "... I've been doing this for decades and I can tell you..." Unfortunately, this "glasses on the tip of the nose"-type of expert squashes all discussion as secondary to his claims. It's a real turn off. Seldom do the experts say what they see that forms their opinions. Could just be conjecture but those offering reasons for why something might be questioned are shot down with no countering reasons other than "years of experience." In a world of such open and even celebrated narcissism I should not be surprised but somehow I am.

In nursing I learned that one documents observations by writing things like, "...the wound/patient/family appears to be..." or "...as evidenced by..." rather than saying something "is". This allows a way out in a sense(legally) and gives room for multiple opinions without another having to retract their observations.

It's a struggle in the well- established ranks of collecting to avoid a pecking order or cliques but trampling discussion to protect what one already knows is counter productive for the hobby.

I haven't met very many but wing guys do appear to be on the up and up - not sizing you up as you approach their table.

Dave 

Well................................................... I have had nothing but good experiences in the wings area. I'm always welcome to new information, as we are all learning and good, civil discussions is a great means of exploring new material. 

 

I am only an expert in medicine (and just in my field of medicine), yet even there have found there is always something new to learn. 

 

I have never encountered anyone shutting me down about asking questions about pieces- never. 

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blind pew

I do interventional pain management. I am one of the first boarded in pain in the US (legit by the National Board of Medical Examiners) and half of my training was through neurosurg, the other half anesthesia. I do some surgeries, but mostly procedures. We are evidence based and scorn many of the absurd interventions that are marginally effective (except for the provider's wallet). Having trained 30 some years ago, I do all the implants, but also the weird craniofacial procedures as well. 

 

Currently we are facing a problem: Many less than scrupulous pain docs are embracing and performing minimally invasive spine surgeries with no evidence whatsoever. Good examples are the MILD procedure (a percutaneous lumbar "decompression surgery" for spinal stenosis) and the MINUTEMAN procedure, which is analagous to "X-Stop", which we did 20 years ago and failed. The North American Spine Society (NASS) has issued a written policy statement condemning these "procedures", which do not work while a simple surgical procedure (lumbar laminectomy) is available and effective through neurosurg (or ortho spine). I have spent a career practicing, publishing, and scrubbing in on spine surgeries to know better. However, enthusiasm rises with the more dollars you can extract from a patient. 

 

Additionally, "stem cell" and platelet rich plasma injections have gained the fascination of many providers, as it is cash only and expensive. We did these on a national trial 25 years ago and both were completely ineffective for spinal disorders. So....................... we abandoned them. Now everybody wants to do these, as you can charge $5K a pop for a completely ineffective and fraudulent treatment!!!!!!

 

I work for a large non-profit and am on a salary, which is great, as I can see anyone regardless of insurance and formulate a good plan. Unfortunately, a TREMENDOUS amount of that plan involves physical medicine, core strengthening, and some exercises, which many are reluctant to perform. The literature is replete with studies showing the efficacy of the PT as a cornerstone of treatment, but this is ignored by many practitioners, as it does not pay them well!!

 

I have one son in nursing school and a daughter in an orthopedic surgery residency, so I have a couple kids in the medical arena. As you know as a unit nurse (you guys are worth your weight in gold), you learn something new every day and thus medicine is a great field for anyone who likes science and has an ounce of curiosity. 

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blind pew

KU?

 

I hope you didn't have to come in contact with Dr. Waldman there in KC. He was one of the biggest crooks in our field and was an embarrassment. 

 

I interviewed at KU prior to taking my current position. Seemed like a nice place. One of my buddies who is now chair of Neurosurg at Dartmouth was briefly the chairman of neurosurg at KU. We trained together and have shared publications. 

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dmar836

Dr Waldman is my father.

Just kidding. I don't think I've had the pleasure. In the ICU, we didn't generally didn't bow to the elites. I have retired so it's all memories now. The field morphed into something I would rather not have worked in. Lots of great stories and capers though. Worked nights for 20yrs and I still rarely get a good "normal" night's sleep.

Interesting how snake oil has never left us. I'd say there is a lot more than ever before - a cheap new weight loss or pain hack commercial daily!

Dave

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blind pew

Indeed-

 

I can tell you that unit nurses have saved my bacon many times. When I started my residency, I had been in the lab for three years, so was "rusty" in clinical medicine. The first night of my residency I was (of course) placed on call in the SICU with 40 ventilated patients. Needless to say, I was a little nervous. So.................... at about 6 pm, I over head paged all available nurses to the call room. I told them I had been in the lab for three years and didn't have a clue what I was doing. They assured me that they knew what to do and if I would just sign the orders, they would take care of things. They were polite enough to call me so I could learn as to what the hell they were doing. 

 

Again- a good unit nurse is worth their weight in gold and has saved me more than once!!! Nurses just need to be paid more. They are way underpaid for what they do and it is about time that there be some changes in salaries so we can keep good people in nursing. We fight all the time to increase our clinic nurse's salaries and have sacrificed pay increases/director's salaries to boost their incomes. It is a good start, but they really need to be paid more for the work they do. Heck................................ the nurses do most of the work in our clinic.

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I have a research laboratory studying multiple myeloma at the Los Angeles VA hospital. No clinical stuff but I do spend a lot of time with mice!  Respect out to nurses and MDs!!

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rathbonemuseum.com

Hey, while I appreciate the conversation among people in the field and agree with all accolades for the people that take care of us, it is off topic. Please take it to DMs. Thanks.

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