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Is this wing good? Post you advice requests here!


John Cooper
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zk4298militaria
1 hour ago, donaldnol said:

meyer's wing, I've never seen one where stamp wording was falling off the edge but it looks fine too.

Thanks, the shield hanging off had me concerned, good to know both are ok.  

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  • 1 month later...
Bull Moose

Anyone recognize this Glider wing pattern or hallmark?

 

It is currently listed on eBay. Up to $81 with 17 watchers.

 

Looks like a cast copy to me, a few pits on the front and soft bumpy looking backside.

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/WWII-Army-Air-Force-Glider-Pilot-Wings-Marked-STER-etc-full-size-3-Detail-/144474597735?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0

F5102AB2-26E5-4C79-A3A5-31CBC42DC7C4.jpeg

05A66AE5-FB54-4D15-92CF-9D4029B8FFA8.jpeg

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donaldnol

yes it looks casted the pin assembly is artificially toned i see smoothing around the edges, also pits 

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It's not a WWII example.  It is based off of the LGB glider but notice the rounded edges in the cavity on the back.  The LGB wings don't have the rounding.  

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rustywings

These same poorly made reproduction Glider Pilot wings have been randomly popping-up for the past ten years or more.  Be suspect of LG Balfour pattern badges marked with just a "Ster."

 

Somewhere in the "Wing Badges" archives is an old thread discussing this type of Glider Pilot wing and "Ster" mark... 

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rustywings

Here it is...

 

Question about LGB glider pilot wings & OCT glider pilot wings - WING BADGES - U.S. Militaria Forum (usmilitariaforum.com)

 

/topic/320081-question-about-lgb-glider-pilot-wings-oct-glider-pilot-wings/

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5thwingmarty

It was my understanding that there were LGB pattern wings struck using the original dies sometime well after WWII "for collectors", and some were marked LGB STER and some were marked with this hexagonal hallmark and STER.  This Glider wing looks like a cast copy of one of the restrikes.  I have an example of a Balloon wing with the hexagonal mark and STER which was die struck.  There appear to be three letters inside the hexagon, but they are so indistinct I can't tell what they were supposed to be.

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Tonomachi

I kept these photos of suspect LBG hallmarked glider pilot wings that look similar to the wing on Post #927.

 

 

DSCF2499.JPG

LGB.jpg

LGB1.jpg

LGB2.jpg

LGB3.jpg

LGB4.jpg

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rustywings

Nicely done Tonomachi! Your LGB restrike images vs LGB reproduction images makes for a excellent comparison study!

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  • 2 weeks later...
donaldnol
On 10/2/2021 at 1:39 PM, donaldnol said:

 

fake.JPG

this wing had many problems and nobody here on the form gave a comment so i sent it back for refund. i still think it was made in pore taste and i feel awful that some purchaser bought it for $44.00

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Basic Rifleman
21 hours ago, donaldnol said:

this wing had many problems and nobody here on the form gave a comment so i sent it back for refund. i still think it was made in pore taste and i feel awful that some purchaser bought it for $44.00

Every set of "General Insignia" made wings I could find online had the same, rough backs; Same as their other WWII era Army insignia. Superior quality was not their selling point for sure, perhaps they were a low cost manufacturer. I've also seen writings linking "General Insignia Inc." of NY with Bell Trading Post. 

 

IMHO, there was nothing wrong with the wings you purchased. The fact you'd buy something before doing any homework; show them here and then return them to a seller based solely on the fact nobody replied to your post in a timely manner is just bad business. 

 

As a sometimes eBay seller, I'd love it if you could post (or PM me) your eBay name so I can add you to my blocked bidders list.  

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Last thing I want to be is the forum police, but we should probably try to be really polite and nice on this thread in particular.  Often times the posters will get bad news and sending things back that you bought on eBay isn't a major crime (I am always very polite but it is frequently difficult to accurately assess something on the internet vs in hand).  Also, to be fair, Donald didn't say he wanted input on the wings, just that he didn't like them and was sending them back.  My assumption is that he was hoping someone would say "No don't do it, that is the way they were made". 

 

Ultimately it is your collection so you should chose what you want.  I just wish I had access to the brains on this forum when I first started collecting. There are some really great and bright collectors who are more than happy to share.

 

P

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donaldnol
2 hours ago, Basic Rifleman said:

Every set of "General Insignia" made wings I could find online had the same, rough backs; Same as their other WWII era Army insignia. Superior quality was not their selling point for sure, perhaps they were a low cost manufacturer. I've also seen writings linking "General Insignia Inc." of NY with Bell Trading Post. 

 

IMHO, there was nothing wrong with the wings you purchased. The fact you'd buy something before doing any homework; show them here and then return them to a seller based solely on the fact nobody replied to your post in a timely manner is just bad business. 

 

As a sometimes eBay seller, I'd love it if you could post (or PM me) your eBay name so I can add you to my blocked bidders list.  

If you had this in your hands you would agree it didn't seem authentic, dont use the block bitter list

 

3 hours ago, dmar836 said:

?? But you bought it.

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dmar836

Yeah, I'm not trying to be critical, Donald. My "You bought it" comment was in response to, "... i feel awful that some purchaser bought it for $44.00"

That buyer took the same risk you took and may or may not return them.

No offense intended,

Dave

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donaldnol
1 hour ago, pfrost said:

Last thing I want to be is the forum police, but we should probably try to be really polite and nice on this thread in particular.  Often times the posters will get bad news and sending things back that you bought on eBay isn't a major crime (I am always very polite but it is frequently difficult to accurately assess something on the internet vs in hand).  Also, to be fair, Donald didn't say he wanted input on the wings, just that he didn't like them and was sending them back.  My assumption is that he was hoping someone would say "No don't do it, that is the way they were made". 

 

Ultimately it is your collection so you should chose what you want.  I just wish I had access to the brains on this forum when I first started collecting. There are some really great and bright collectors who are more than happy to share.

 

P

you were right in that assumption thanks

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pconrad02

All,

Just thought I would chime in; I agree completely with Patrick’s comment “we should probably try to be really polite and nice on this thread in particular”.  However, I think the frustration expressed by Basic Rifleman is this new trend on eBay to treat it like it is Amazon.  As a more and more infrequent seller on eBay, (I have been on eBay since 1998, and was once a Power Seller) their new policies regarding returns have become somewhat odious for sellers.

Basically, you have to accept any return for any reason and in many cases you get stuck with the return shipping regardless of your policies. As a hobbyist, and not a retail outlet, it really does bother me when it costs me money to list something just so somebody can look at it and then send it back, like Amazon.  I am not saying that was the case with donaldnol, but as collectors it is our responsibility, I believe, to do our due diligence before purchasing things from sellers that aren't on Amazon.

This isn't to say that if somebody mis-describes something you shouldn't return it, I've always accepted returns if I screw up, but this current trend of buying something just to check it out and then returning it at the seller’s expense has many people upset.

I also agree with Patrick's comment regarding I wish I had access to the brains on this forum when I started collecting (as he is one of those brains), but I think many younger collectors are tending to rely too much on the Internet for quick response and result. I probably have $600+ dollars’ worth of reference books on U.S. military collectibles alone,  a ton just on wings. I doubt most new collectors have one of these volumes.

Sorry for the long treatise here, it's just been something that has been bothering me a lot lately and has caused me to really reduce my selling activity for militaria on eBay.

 

Just my two cents ( well more like 50 cents),

 

Paul

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donaldnol

my fault i guess i shouldn't had bid on these, you couldn't see the pic's clearly enough, anyway thats over with. more than likely i will never take pictures for granted

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When in doubt, I usually ask if they have a return policy.  Sometimes pictures just aren't good enough, so I also ask for better pictures.  If I do decide that I want to return something (rare, but it does happen), I always offer to pay for shipping costs and any listing fees. Seems only fair to me.  I have found being polite and reasonable goes far with most dealers!

 

Still, caveat emptor as they say.  Its your collection, its your responsibility.

 

Again, always be polite and reasonable, ask questions before hand, GET your own knowledge and research done first (as best you can) and I think it can all make this hobby as enjoyable and stress free as possible.

 

Back in the day, eBay was sometimes like a tame version of the wild west, an Arabian souk, and a Chinese opium den. Oh the stories.... I think a little adult supervision has helped, even if it has made some of the drama less enjoyable.

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Basic Rifleman

I was hoping this exchange would quickly get buried in the thread, but being it's still front and center I'll say this... In re-reading it, I admit my words could have been chosen better.

 

This is not a hill worth dying on for sure, but I still very much stand by the premise that returns should be reserved exclusively for misrepresentation on the part of the seller. I buy hundreds of items each year and can't think of the last time I had to return an item. If I take a chance on an item (don't know exactly what I'm buying - don't do adequate research, etc.) and it turns out to be not quite what I was expecting (or hoping for) then I chalk it up as a lesson learned. Never have I bought an item and then couldn't get an answer of "what is it" in a timely fashion and then return it at the sellers expense. In this case, the wing was good (and made by a somewhat scarce maker) so maybe that's why I was upset. Some eBay seller trying to make a living, or the more likely case, come up with extra money (let's be honest, no one sells $30 wings on eBay because they're a millionaire living on the beach somewhere) had to spend time, energy, and money to list the item, accommodate this return, and then re-list. Cost of doing business on the WWW? Maybe... but this is not an eBay issue, this is an issue with making one's own indecisiveness someone else's problem, so I called it out. Doing so publically was in poor taste. I'll haze myself later...

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bschwartz

I'll post a funny story about ebay and returns before returning you to your normally scheduled thread.  When I was a beginning collector and ebay was just starting out I bid on and won an Amcraft observer wing and was very excited as it would have been my first observer wing.  I was crushed when it arrived and the shoulders didn't look quite right (the pictures were very dark) and the pin was on backwards.  I struggled with it's authenticity for a few days and then contacted the seller for a return.  She was very gracious and the transaction ended quickly and friendly.  About six months later I realized that I had returned a Beverlycraft Observer that I thought was a fake Amcraft observer and I had won it for $50.  Sigh.  I'm still on the hunt for a Beverlycraft observer to this day.  That was right around the time I decided to start my site so I could see a lot more wings and advance my knowledge.  Bought every book I could find and the addiction grew and here I am today still going at it.  Just not as quickly and a lot more educated.

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dmar836

Several thoughts come to mind.

 

As for wing buying, I collect only AAF items only but never specifically wings. I have some on uniforms and a handful loose but I did get the bug about a year ago to pick up some variations and found there was a lot to learn. Unfortunately, I did quickly notice there are wing enthusiast/buyers that I simply cannot keep up with. It's as if winning an auction matters more than what is bought. When wings sell so quickly regardless of price, period, rarity, and even known authenticity, I see I can't play that "home buyers" game just to get my hands on them. This is even with the mundane wings most already have. I need to learn about them while I am buying. When things are snapped up, posted for identification, resold, or returned so flippantly, and the whole thing so repeated so quickly and frequently, they feel like items I don't need to deal with. I felt I must move quickly and pay whatever or be left with the dregs. I can't learn if I go that fast and IMO careless errors reinforce making repeat errors more likely. I began to feel, while learning about wings from the knowledgeable guys here, that the info was becoming a bit diluted - harder to stay firmly on that steep learning curve. Learning about wings should not be studying the fakes significantly more than the authentic ones IMO but that is what I see. I hope no one takes offense, it's a big collecting world out there and I'm not playing victim, but I simply decided after a few to quit studying and buying wings. Maybe I'll get back into them some day. 

 

As for the wing books, my perception(very possibly incorrect) of most older books is that they were written prior to the restrikes and all out fakes we see on the market today(duh, right?). The few books I've seen referenced appear to be mostly B&W pictures of how a specific contractor's pattern should appear rather than details that would help me assess real wings from various contractors. Prior to the web we didn't even know what was available out there. Like Cole's knife books, they show what the various items are but not how to assess them for authenticity. The dangers of "better" info are obvious so maybe the point is moot. Context and cross comparison takes time and that';s the kind of learning this is for me. I have learned a lot from you guys here - sometimes what not to do.😆 Mark Imel, locally, helped me a lot at a show but otherwise it's here. Info needs to be repeated for learning and I've been skipping class. I need my info to be conservative, basic, and clean.

 

Just opining,

Dave

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The Rooster

I get why someone who finds a wing that seems extra special thats for sale on ebay, would not post it on here to ask opinions before the sale. It may be something found that few people have seen due to it being miss marked or in the wrong category. Maybe the person does not want to announce its there.

Its best to search this forum and search Bobs site and glean out as much info and pics ro study before bidding on a wing.

This forum and Bobs site and sites that sell ww2 wings are the best place to research before putting any money into it.

When I was a novice I made a few real nice scores early on, and I got burned a couple times too.

Best to spend the time if you find a wing you want, to look over authentic examples on the web and compare them to whats being auctioned.

Research. I found what looked like an ATC half wing radio operator wing going for $100.00. I thought it was real but I didnt know and I didnt want to post it

here and ask questions because no body was bidding on it. I didnt want to attract attention to it.

I got the wing and it was a real one. Worth 5 times what I paid, so I dont blame the OP for not asking here first.

 

The way I knew the ATC wing was the real deal was because of this great forum.

 

this site https://www.militaryaviationartifacts.com/wings.htm

 

Bobs great site,

 

https://www.ww2wings.com/

 

and flying tiger antiques and others..

 

I did my research.

 

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Basic Rifleman
11 minutes ago, The Rooster said:

I get why someone who finds a wing that seems extra special thats for sale on ebay, would not post it on here to ask opinions before the sale.

I'm not sure anyone hinted that he should. I think what most have said is it's important to do research, whatever that looks like, before buying an item.

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