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IS THIS WING GOOD? Post your requests here!


John Cooper
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Seems a good time to vent. There are some members on this forum(not in the wings forum) who are gradually becoming "experts" by their own admission. In the wings forum discussions don't stop with, "... I've handled examples of every maker and I can tell you..." or, "... I've been doing this for decades and I can tell you..." Unfortunately, this "glasses on the tip of the nose"-type of expert squashes all discussion as secondary to his claims. It's a real turn off. Seldom do the experts say what they see that forms their opinions. Could just be conjecture but those offering reasons for why something might be questioned are shot down with no countering reasons other than "years of experience." In a world of such open and even celebrated narcissism I should not be surprised but somehow I am.

In nursing I learned that one documents observations by writing things like, "...the wound/patient/family appears to be..." or "...as evidenced by..." rather than saying something "is". This allows a way out in a sense(legally) and gives room for multiple opinions without another having to retract their observations.

It's a struggle in the well- established ranks of collecting to avoid a pecking order or cliques but trampling discussion to protect what one already knows is counter productive for the hobby.

I haven't met very many but wing guys do appear to be on the up and up - not sizing you up as you approach their table.

Dave 

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18 hours ago, pfrost said:

There has been turmoil on the forum. Yes, even I, have been put into forum time out for being a chowderhead and dare I say it... A jerk!  There have been a few others who were  banned from participating AND at least one from even being mentioned by name....  JoeVoldemort (AKA HeWhoShallNotBeNamed), I am looking at you!  --I know HWSNBN lurks here because he periodically sends me email billet doux warning me to stop.

 

But the moderators are quick to tamp down on any of our shenanigans and the rank and file folks are great.  Best Damn Forum On the Net.

Patrick , that's hilarious- and he continues to send those to myself and others ever since he purchased/ re-registered the Lux trademark. Ah, the stories we "can't" tell....

 

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rathbonemuseum.com
On 4/10/2022 at 4:47 PM, pfrost said:

There has been turmoil on the forum. Yes, even I, have been put into forum time out for being a chowderhead and dare I say it... A jerk!  There have been a few others who were  banned from participating AND at least one from even being mentioned by name....  JoeVoldemort (AKA HeWhoShallNotBeNamed), I am looking at you!  --I know HWSNBN lurks here because he periodically sends me email billet doux warning me to stop.

 

But the moderators are quick to tamp down on any of our shenanigans and the rank and file folks are great.  Best Damn Forum On the Net.

 

 

Thank goodness he has lost my email. He has republished just about everything i've written or photographed. And sits at his tables at the big shows smiling and laughing.

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On 4/11/2022 at 10:25 AM, dmar836 said:

Seems a good time to vent. There are some members on this forum(not in the wings forum) who are gradually becoming "experts" by their own admission. In the wings forum discussions don't stop with, "... I've handled examples of every maker and I can tell you..." or, "... I've been doing this for decades and I can tell you..." Unfortunately, this "glasses on the tip of the nose"-type of expert squashes all discussion as secondary to his claims. It's a real turn off. Seldom do the experts say what they see that forms their opinions. Could just be conjecture but those offering reasons for why something might be questioned are shot down with no countering reasons other than "years of experience." In a world of such open and even celebrated narcissism I should not be surprised but somehow I am.

In nursing I learned that one documents observations by writing things like, "...the wound/patient/family appears to be..." or "...as evidenced by..." rather than saying something "is". This allows a way out in a sense(legally) and gives room for multiple opinions without another having to retract their observations.

It's a struggle in the well- established ranks of collecting to avoid a pecking order or cliques but trampling discussion to protect what one already knows is counter productive for the hobby.

I haven't met very many but wing guys do appear to be on the up and up - not sizing you up as you approach their table.

Dave 

Well................................................... I have had nothing but good experiences in the wings area. I'm always welcome to new information, as we are all learning and good, civil discussions is a great means of exploring new material. 

 

I am only an expert in medicine (and just in my field of medicine), yet even there have found there is always something new to learn. 

 

I have never encountered anyone shutting me down about asking questions about pieces- never. 

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I do interventional pain management. I am one of the first boarded in pain in the US (legit by the National Board of Medical Examiners) and half of my training was through neurosurg, the other half anesthesia. I do some surgeries, but mostly procedures. We are evidence based and scorn many of the absurd interventions that are marginally effective (except for the provider's wallet). Having trained 30 some years ago, I do all the implants, but also the weird craniofacial procedures as well. 

 

Currently we are facing a problem: Many less than scrupulous pain docs are embracing and performing minimally invasive spine surgeries with no evidence whatsoever. Good examples are the MILD procedure (a percutaneous lumbar "decompression surgery" for spinal stenosis) and the MINUTEMAN procedure, which is analagous to "X-Stop", which we did 20 years ago and failed. The North American Spine Society (NASS) has issued a written policy statement condemning these "procedures", which do not work while a simple surgical procedure (lumbar laminectomy) is available and effective through neurosurg (or ortho spine). I have spent a career practicing, publishing, and scrubbing in on spine surgeries to know better. However, enthusiasm rises with the more dollars you can extract from a patient. 

 

Additionally, "stem cell" and platelet rich plasma injections have gained the fascination of many providers, as it is cash only and expensive. We did these on a national trial 25 years ago and both were completely ineffective for spinal disorders. So....................... we abandoned them. Now everybody wants to do these, as you can charge $5K a pop for a completely ineffective and fraudulent treatment!!!!!!

 

I work for a large non-profit and am on a salary, which is great, as I can see anyone regardless of insurance and formulate a good plan. Unfortunately, a TREMENDOUS amount of that plan involves physical medicine, core strengthening, and some exercises, which many are reluctant to perform. The literature is replete with studies showing the efficacy of the PT as a cornerstone of treatment, but this is ignored by many practitioners, as it does not pay them well!!

 

I have one son in nursing school and a daughter in an orthopedic surgery residency, so I have a couple kids in the medical arena. As you know as a unit nurse (you guys are worth your weight in gold), you learn something new every day and thus medicine is a great field for anyone who likes science and has an ounce of curiosity. 

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KU?

 

I hope you didn't have to come in contact with Dr. Waldman there in KC. He was one of the biggest crooks in our field and was an embarrassment. 

 

I interviewed at KU prior to taking my current position. Seemed like a nice place. One of my buddies who is now chair of Neurosurg at Dartmouth was briefly the chairman of neurosurg at KU. We trained together and have shared publications. 

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Dr Waldman is my father.

Just kidding. I don't think I've had the pleasure. In the ICU, we didn't generally didn't bow to the elites. I have retired so it's all memories now. The field morphed into something I would rather not have worked in. Lots of great stories and capers though. Worked nights for 20yrs and I still rarely get a good "normal" night's sleep.

Interesting how snake oil has never left us. I'd say there is a lot more than ever before - a cheap new weight loss or pain hack commercial daily!

Dave

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Indeed-

 

I can tell you that unit nurses have saved my bacon many times. When I started my residency, I had been in the lab for three years, so was "rusty" in clinical medicine. The first night of my residency I was (of course) placed on call in the SICU with 40 ventilated patients. Needless to say, I was a little nervous. So.................... at about 6 pm, I over head paged all available nurses to the call room. I told them I had been in the lab for three years and didn't have a clue what I was doing. They assured me that they knew what to do and if I would just sign the orders, they would take care of things. They were polite enough to call me so I could learn as to what the hell they were doing. 

 

Again- a good unit nurse is worth their weight in gold and has saved me more than once!!! Nurses just need to be paid more. They are way underpaid for what they do and it is about time that there be some changes in salaries so we can keep good people in nursing. We fight all the time to increase our clinic nurse's salaries and have sacrificed pay increases/director's salaries to boost their incomes. It is a good start, but they really need to be paid more for the work they do. Heck................................ the nurses do most of the work in our clinic.

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I have a research laboratory studying multiple myeloma at the Los Angeles VA hospital. No clinical stuff but I do spend a lot of time with mice!  Respect out to nurses and MDs!!

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rathbonemuseum.com

Hey, while I appreciate the conversation among people in the field and agree with all accolades for the people that take care of us, it is off topic. Please take it to DMs. Thanks.

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  • 1 month later...

Hello, I’m new to the group and collecting airborne wings. My main interest is WWII era wings. I’m trying to become knowledgeable on how to spot fake jump wings from authentic ones. I have read some of the older posts along with other outside forums for pointers. I THINK I have some of the basics down for the pin category of American made wings:

1. They must be sterling silver (they may or may not be marked)

2. Look for a egg shaped clasp closure 

3. Look for a crisp edge around the wings to make sure that they weren’t cast made 

4. If there is a hallmark check available sources for when it was used and if it is correctly applied (such as use of a letter/number code would be post war manufacture)

5. Look for patina on the wings indicating aging 

6. Look at how the shroud lines converge (should be evenly and at the bottom tip)

I’m sure that there are some things (probably several) that I’m missing in my list. Pointers would be appreciated! 
The question I have is how do you determine a wartime clutch back wing from one that is post war. Once again I’ve read the posts. I know that the same things apply to look for with the difference being in the clutch backs on a set of wings, post length (a short version less than 1/2 inch) and how the posts were attached to the wings. The clutches themselves can provide a clue IF they are original or claimed to be.

Having said that I still am struggling to get a firm handle on what is and isn’t fake or misrepresented.

I was wondering if I was close on this set currently listed on eBay? The only thing I question about them I have is are the posts WWII era. They seem to meet all the other requirements. Thanks for any insight you can give.

0171079D-B716-4FFE-8FFC-7C3B66FADBC9.png

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Have also seen this one as well that somewhat meets the criteria. Any opinions on the previous and this one. Examples and information would be appreciated. It’s somewhat confusing unless an item has provenance.

BBF8218C-1242-46A4-81DD-DFFCFAD68C08.png

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  • 3 months later...
  • 1 month later...

I dont have this wing yet but undecided to bid not sure if it's a true wasp this was relisted again by seller. what is your thoughts on this. 

s-l1600 (47)q.jpg

s-l1600 (43).jpg

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Basic Rifleman

I provided this seller with links to this thread and outlined the reasons why his was likely not "good". The measurements are off. This one is larger than an original, and the letter shapes and alignment are not good as outlined here on the forum. He agreed with me, and then decided to re-list without posting any of this info. I also looked at his past listings. This guy's "dumb like a fox". He knows what he has here....

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2 hours ago, Basic Rifleman said:

I provided this seller with links to this thread and outlined the reasons why his was likely not "good". The measurements are off. This one is larger than an original, and the letter shapes and alignment are not good as outlined here on the forum. He agreed with me, and then decided to re-list without posting any of this info. I also looked at his past listings. This guy's "dumb like a fox". He knows what he has here....

Wow this is not good he showed me these newer pics but still burrs them. thanx for the ensite

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  • 1 month later...

Wow, the edges on this one look as soft as melted butter. 
This is not an AE Co. wing pattern. Is another second pattern Meyer’s. Agreed, poor attempt at a American Emblem Co. hallmark.

 

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In my ‘Box of Tears’ I have an almost duplicate of this particular wing. Mine is back marked: ‘M&B B’ham Sterling Silver’. What a joke. Purchased when I had more money than time for research. Same error on the downstroke of the cast ‘G’. Thought at the time I thought I had a rare English Wing. Now I know how correct English Sterling Silver Wings must be marked. 

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A TWO INCH BALFOUR WING  i was curious of what they had soldered on to the shield might be something i wanted so i bought it and found it was a arabic replublic of yemen an old silver coin w/ a D mint mark coin was poorly soldered on to the front of the shield and spewed on the back. the pin on the back was shorten, it would have been a beautiful old wing but sadly it was ruined. i think this was done by a amateur

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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  • 2 months later...

Hi, just for discussion.... 

I guess that most of you saw this 1917 'US' pattern Navy wing on ebay, it sold for just over $500, easily worth it if it is original.

My feeling is that it isn't original, I could be wrong, what are your opinions?

Screenshot_20230310_111049_eBay.jpg

Screenshot_20230310_111031_eBay.jpg

Screenshot_20230310_111136_eBay.jpg

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rathbonemuseum.com

I think you already know the answer

- Link pattern with BB&B hallmark

- Heavy chromatic staining due to chemical and heat application on back

- applied heavy US

- whole thing appears to be made of some brass based mystery metal

- relatively modern findings compared to purported age of the wing

 

This wing was made on purpose to deceive in my opinion

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