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daniel griffin

An Unusual Revolutionary War Flag

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This flag came from the Webb family in central Pennsylvania, it was purchased at an estate auction for very little money by a very sharp general-line antique dealer who offered it to me within 24 hours of its discovery. It is white linen with polished cotton stars and stripes, partial blue wool fringe. The inked motto speaks for itself. Please excuse the glare in the photo.

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Griffin Militaria

 

 

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What makes it Rev War?


LEATHERNECK72


Advanced Collector and USMC Officer --- Paying top dollar for quality Marine Corps antiques. Kepis, shakos, helmets, hats, good conduct medals, old photos, fighting knives, hat and collar emblems, swords, guns, documents. Keep your USMC item in a Marine Corps family! Send me a PM and let me know what you have....

 

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The stars look a lot like "Moravian Stars", wonder if there is any connection there?

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Very cool item.I like the "stars" and the motto.It reminds me of some folk art I've seen.


High Flight

Oh, I have slipped the surly bonds of earth

And danced the skies on laughter-silver wings;

Sunward I've climbed and joined the tumbling mirth

Of sun-split clouds - and done a hundred things

You have not dreamed of - wheeled and soared and swung

High in the sunlit silence. Hovering there

I've chased the shouting wind along and flung

My eager craft through footless halls of air.

Up, up the long delirious, burning blue

I've topped the wind-swept heights with easy grace,

where never lark, or even eagle flew;

and while, with silent, lifting mind I've trod

The high untrespassed sanctity of space,

Put out my hand, and touched the face of God.

 

John Gillespie Magee, Jr.

June 9, 1922 – December 11, 1941

 

 

 

" And each man stands with his face in the light of his own drawn sword. Ready to do what a hero can." - Elizabeth Barrett Browning

 

 

Don't let the B@stards wear you down -"Vinegar" Joe Stillwell

 

 

Reasonable people adapt themselves to the world.Unreasonable

people attempt to adapt the world to themselves.All progress,

therefore, depends on unreasonable people.

George Bernard Shaw

 

 

" Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining" , Fletcher,from the movie "The outlaw Josey Wales"

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I told Dan that this was merely the family flag of "The Webb Family Singers", who escaped from Austria before the Revolutionary War and found musical freedom here in their new country. I therfore offered him $50 for the flag. Amazingly, he declined. :D


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Do you think this was original to the Revolution, or a commmorative item made for later celebrations?

 

The stars do look like some of the quilting or hex signs that you see in Pennsylvania Dutch country. It will be great to get the full story on this one.


Gil Burket
Omaha, NE
Specializing in Fakes and Reproductions
of the Vietnam War

burkcats@hotmail.com

 

"One is easily fooled by that which one loves."

 

Moliere: Tartuffe

 

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Do you think this was original to the Revolution, or a commmorative item made for later celebrations?

 

 

 

To me, the word "soon" implies Freedom hasn't happened yet, so it probably wasn't made after the fact. And, I would think a later commerative item would have more of a recognizable US flag appearance. The wording, the 13 stars, and just the overall "look" makes a strong case for it being Rev War era.

Quite a find!


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Very nice. Unusual for a color(s) to be made out of linen.


Ted Filer

LTC (USA, Retired)

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To me, the word "soon" implies Freedom hasn't happened yet, so it probably wasn't made after the fact.

 

 

 

Good catch. I see it now and I agree with you.


Gil Burket
Omaha, NE
Specializing in Fakes and Reproductions
of the Vietnam War

burkcats@hotmail.com

 

"One is easily fooled by that which one loves."

 

Moliere: Tartuffe

 

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donation2012.gifdonation2013.gifdonation2014.gifdonation2015.gifdonation2016.gif

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Amazing and Revolutionary finds you have had as of late.

 

According to the book if the voices don't cry the rocks will.


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The flag is not from the Revolution. The phrase on it is from an 1834 poem "Independence" by abolitionist/writer/editor/poet Sarah Josepha Buell Hale, best known as the author of "Mary Had a Little Lamb" and as the individual most responsible for making Thanksgiving a national holiday.

 

The future tense expressed by the word "shall" refers to a freedom yet to come for AmerIca's slaves.

 

She was also the editor of the most prominent women's magazine of that era, one that established many of the fashions of the day. She had quite a wide range of interests and influence: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarah_Josepha_Hale



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It would probably be called an abolitionist or anti-slavery flag, maybe from the 1840's or so. It seems as though as it got closer to the Civil War, anti-slavery flags were more apt to look like the normal red, white and blue American flag, except they only had 20 stars, denoting the non-slave states.

 

Here it is with some other examples, all with slogans and one with a similar heavily stylised take on the American flag.

 

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By the way, the one with "NO UNION WITH SLAVERY" was on the History Detectives and sold in November 2005 at Cowan's Auctions for $46,000.

 

I think the one featured in this thread is also probably worth what the experts call "a bundle." I would imagine a textile expert could help narrow down the date.

 

As for the question about "Moravian stars," well they didn't start using those until the 1830's in Germany - later in the US - and the Moravian Church itself was not anti-slavery then.



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Interesting.Thinking it may be from a song,I initially had "Googled" the phrase,but had come up with nothing.Good detective work.


High Flight

Oh, I have slipped the surly bonds of earth

And danced the skies on laughter-silver wings;

Sunward I've climbed and joined the tumbling mirth

Of sun-split clouds - and done a hundred things

You have not dreamed of - wheeled and soared and swung

High in the sunlit silence. Hovering there

I've chased the shouting wind along and flung

My eager craft through footless halls of air.

Up, up the long delirious, burning blue

I've topped the wind-swept heights with easy grace,

where never lark, or even eagle flew;

and while, with silent, lifting mind I've trod

The high untrespassed sanctity of space,

Put out my hand, and touched the face of God.

 

John Gillespie Magee, Jr.

June 9, 1922 – December 11, 1941

 

 

 

" And each man stands with his face in the light of his own drawn sword. Ready to do what a hero can." - Elizabeth Barrett Browning

 

 

Don't let the B@stards wear you down -"Vinegar" Joe Stillwell

 

 

Reasonable people adapt themselves to the world.Unreasonable

people attempt to adapt the world to themselves.All progress,

therefore, depends on unreasonable people.

George Bernard Shaw

 

 

" Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining" , Fletcher,from the movie "The outlaw Josey Wales"

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Fascinating and well beyond my collecting knowledge. Great piece of American history anyhow.


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Seeking Model 1895 and 1902 Named Officer coats as well as Spanish American War Tropical Uniforms.
Also pre WW2 marine uniforms. Always pre-1945 Colorado National Guard Items wanted! Also seeking Rhodesian

Uniforms and Gear used by Americans in the Rhodesian Security Forces during the Bush War (Africa).

 

Fortune cookie say: "An expert is someone that knows so much about so little."

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This is from a book of songs printed in 1852

 

 

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!!!! WANTED !!!!

WWII Prisoner of War items : Medals, Mail, Diaries, Photos, Documents, Scrapbooks + More

WWII Naval Aviation Groupings : Medals, Documents, Scrapbooks, Photos, Flight Logs, Flight Jackets + More

 


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and Hale's poem

 

 

halep.JPG


!!!! WANTED !!!!

WWII Prisoner of War items : Medals, Mail, Diaries, Photos, Documents, Scrapbooks + More

WWII Naval Aviation Groupings : Medals, Documents, Scrapbooks, Photos, Flight Logs, Flight Jackets + More

 


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donation2012.gifdonation2013.gifdonation2014.gifdonation2015.gifdonation2016.gif
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Yes still an amazing artifact!As hot a collectible as the anti slavery stuff is,it may turn out that the flag is worth more now than had it been a Revolutionary war piece!


High Flight

Oh, I have slipped the surly bonds of earth

And danced the skies on laughter-silver wings;

Sunward I've climbed and joined the tumbling mirth

Of sun-split clouds - and done a hundred things

You have not dreamed of - wheeled and soared and swung

High in the sunlit silence. Hovering there

I've chased the shouting wind along and flung

My eager craft through footless halls of air.

Up, up the long delirious, burning blue

I've topped the wind-swept heights with easy grace,

where never lark, or even eagle flew;

and while, with silent, lifting mind I've trod

The high untrespassed sanctity of space,

Put out my hand, and touched the face of God.

 

John Gillespie Magee, Jr.

June 9, 1922 – December 11, 1941

 

 

 

" And each man stands with his face in the light of his own drawn sword. Ready to do what a hero can." - Elizabeth Barrett Browning

 

 

Don't let the B@stards wear you down -"Vinegar" Joe Stillwell

 

 

Reasonable people adapt themselves to the world.Unreasonable

people attempt to adapt the world to themselves.All progress,

therefore, depends on unreasonable people.

George Bernard Shaw

 

 

" Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining" , Fletcher,from the movie "The outlaw Josey Wales"

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Some excellent research here! The evidence posted does strongly suggest it being an anti-slavery flag. Interesting that 13 stars were used rather than going with the number of stars corresponding to the number of states in the Union at the time this flag was made. With a single star surrounded by 12 others, perhaps this is meant to indicate the flag was from a state that was one of the "Original 13". Being that this flag came out of Pennsylvania and that the state colors of Pennyslvania are blue and gold, that's the state I think that center star (and this flag) designates.


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Some excellent research here! The evidence posted does strongly suggest it being an anti-slavery flag. Interesting that 13 stars were used rather than going with the number of stars corresponding to the number of states in the Union at the time this flag was made. With a single star surrounded by 12 others, perhaps this is meant to indicate the flag was from a state that was one of the "Original 13". Being that this flag came out of Pennsylvania and that the state colors of Pennyslvania are blue and gold, that's the state I think that center star (and this flag) designates.

 

I discovered this morning that from 1837 to 1845 there were 13 free states and 13 slave states, so this has a star for each free state. As noted above, it was common for anti-slavery flags to show stars only for the free states. The numbers changed in 1846, so we can date this flag to before then.



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Wow,that is pre Civil War by a long shot.Early anti slavery stuff must be very hard to find.Thanks for all the great info that you found.


High Flight

Oh, I have slipped the surly bonds of earth

And danced the skies on laughter-silver wings;

Sunward I've climbed and joined the tumbling mirth

Of sun-split clouds - and done a hundred things

You have not dreamed of - wheeled and soared and swung

High in the sunlit silence. Hovering there

I've chased the shouting wind along and flung

My eager craft through footless halls of air.

Up, up the long delirious, burning blue

I've topped the wind-swept heights with easy grace,

where never lark, or even eagle flew;

and while, with silent, lifting mind I've trod

The high untrespassed sanctity of space,

Put out my hand, and touched the face of God.

 

John Gillespie Magee, Jr.

June 9, 1922 – December 11, 1941

 

 

 

" And each man stands with his face in the light of his own drawn sword. Ready to do what a hero can." - Elizabeth Barrett Browning

 

 

Don't let the B@stards wear you down -"Vinegar" Joe Stillwell

 

 

Reasonable people adapt themselves to the world.Unreasonable

people attempt to adapt the world to themselves.All progress,

therefore, depends on unreasonable people.

George Bernard Shaw

 

 

" Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining" , Fletcher,from the movie "The outlaw Josey Wales"

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