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More underhanded dealings! Really! Sea Bee's & USN Metal-smith Helmets


USMC-RECON0321

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USMC-RECON0321

Sorry, but I must rant on this!

 

We all love to find great helmets, but half the fun is how you got it and should feel no shame in telling how that happened.

 

I'm posting both of these because, this is just getting old! As been said many times before... If a seller puts up a helmet on eBay, or any other auction site and it has bids it should be left to run the course of the auction. If "NO" bids placed and someone makes an offer, than so be it and fair play. Both these helmets are very nice and would have ended for good money, both did have bids (mine included on one) and all bids cancelled and auctions ended (different sellers). In my book that is a back room deal, stolen out from under the others who were willing to bid! Is that was this is coming to?

If you want it and bids have been placed, just bid to win,like anyone else, don't back door every one!! To me part of collecting is finding great items, but also showing respect for my fellow collectors and how we treat each other!!!

 

I have no way of knowing for sure if this is why the auctions were ended, but have little doubt for any other reason?? I know some sellers are going to do this no matter what, but they should at least have the decency to contact the people who were willing to bid on their item and give them the opportunity to counter any offers if they are not going to let the auction finish. Or cancel and relist it with a buy it now / best offer option.

 

Sorry for the outburst, but I think there is responsibility on both the seller and buyer when this is done! I'm about getting to the point of doing this myself, but I don't think I could ever show the helmet knowing how I obtained it!! So I don't.

 

Some may disagree with me on this, but think of it this way: You see an item you want listed in an estate auction ad, you go to the auction to bid and find out when you get there the auctioneer accepted an offer and sold it prior to the auction starting. Do you think there would be some upset people at the auction who showed up to play by the rules??

 

I know the saying goes; Nice Guys finish last, but at least we can cross the finish line with our heads held high!!

 

I'm not trying to sound like a sore loser here, I've been out bid many times by fellow forum members, collectors and friends of mine only to congratulate each other for a hard fought battle and the higher bid won, fair and square! But these kinds of dealings are not in that category. So I feel the only thing we can do to counter this kind of activity is to make the helmets public for all to see.

 

Troy

 

1st Helmet

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/WWII-US-Helmet-with-Trench-Art-Work-on-Liner-/390711635602?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT&nma=true&si=HfX1s6u5t9xKf5C05nLCjD3Mh9s%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

 

post-33000-0-75478600-1385569585.jpg post-33000-0-64115100-1385569594.jpg post-33000-0-09141500-1385574112.jpg

 

2nd Helmet

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/WWII-US-Navy-Shipfitter-Molder-Metalsmith-M-1-Painted-Helmet-Fixed-Bail-/121222616436?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT&nma=true&si=HfX1s6u5t9xKf5C05nLCjD3Mh9s%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

 

post-33000-0-45986800-1385569605.jpg

 

 

USMC 2/2 Fox Co 0311 & 1st Recon Bn Delta Co. 0321. 1986 - 1995 (Desert Storm 90/91)

US Army Long Range Surveillance Co F 425th INF ABN LRS Team 1-6 2003 - 2005 (Iraqi Freedom 03/04)

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I don't blame you Troy....I'd feel just the same as you do. This scurrilous practice is outrageous....but unfortunately it happens! :o

"We shall defend our island, whatever the cost may be. We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender!"

 

Winston Churchill

" Life is what happens to you when you're busy making other plans."

John Winston Lennon

 

 

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I was planning to bid on the metal smith helmet, (Never saw the Sea Bee helmet) but I looked on my watch list and it was gone! It really stinks to lose out like that, but sellers have done worse than that. The sellers probably don't even realize many times they take offers like this, they are potentially losing out on hundreds (if not thousands) of dollars.

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I had that one in my watch list. This has happened to me on many occasions. I even had one seller email me to tell me that he canceled my bid because he took a buy it now offer. He could have at least gave me a chance to make an offer as well. It's a cut-throat hobby I guess.


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normaninvasion

Hate to say it but with rare, one of a kind , and competive niche items. It's kinda every collector for themselves. I don't think its fair but it is what it is. There are some sellers who do this all the time, to the point where I no longer pay attention to there listings. More money in your pocket less for them

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USMC-RECON0321

We had a discussion similar to this not long ago. That's why, when I see a helmet I really like (even with a high starting bid) if I'm willing to pay that amount or more, I bid right away so the seller knows there is interest in the helmet and hopefully won't take any offers that come to him. I also realize this will be done anyway by some sellers, so I also send an email to the seller after placing my bid, letting him know that I'm very serious about bidding on his helmet and hope to win in the end, reminding him most bidding will be at the end of the auction and the price can jump very high in the last few seconds, so please don't take any offers to end it early. I end my email with telling them to please contact me if they do receive an offer and are planning on ending the auction for that offer, to at least give me and the other bidders the opportunity to respond before loosing out all together with the auction being ended.

 

Troy

USMC 2/2 Fox Co 0311 & 1st Recon Bn Delta Co. 0321. 1986 - 1995 (Desert Storm 90/91)

US Army Long Range Surveillance Co F 425th INF ABN LRS Team 1-6 2003 - 2005 (Iraqi Freedom 03/04)

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GeneralCheese

I sent the seller of the Sea Bee helmet a message just after it was listed asking if they would do a Buy it now. When I sent the message, there were no bids. When I woke up this morning and saw it had gotten 5 overnight, I decided that even if the seller responded I wouldn't offer, since it is crummy to pull auctions out from under people. Sadly some people don't seem to know when to let something go...

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USMC-RECON0321

Hate to say it but with rare, one of a kind , and competive niche items. It's kinda every collector for themselves. I don't think its fair but it is what it is. There are some sellers who do this all the time, to the point where I no longer pay attention to there listings. More money in your pocket less for them

 

I agree, If I see a seller do this, I ignore him from that point on! But as far as every collector for themselves, yes if all on the up and up, and the one that is willing to pay the most gets it. No hard feelings. But the ones who do this underhanded stuff, they are truly "every collector for themselves" because I don't think many would want much to do with them. As we have all said before, your reputation in this hobby goes a long ways as a seller, buyer, collector etc.. I've seen helmets before that I really liked, but knew a fellow collector who was very dedicated (more than me) to that type, style or unit marked helmet so I contacted them first to let them know about it and if they passed, then I went for it. (several have been forum members here that I have done that for). So to me, collecting wouldn't be half the fun if I didn't have good friends to do it with! Could you imagine if the only persons you had to show your new helmets to were your spouse or local friends that think your crazy?? What fun would that be, so I treat my collector friends and this hobby with respect in how I deal with items.

 

Troy

USMC 2/2 Fox Co 0311 & 1st Recon Bn Delta Co. 0321. 1986 - 1995 (Desert Storm 90/91)

US Army Long Range Surveillance Co F 425th INF ABN LRS Team 1-6 2003 - 2005 (Iraqi Freedom 03/04)

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USMC-RECON0321

I sent the seller of the Sea Bee helmet a message just after it was listed asking if they would do a Buy it now. When I sent the message, there were no bids. When I woke up this morning and saw it had gotten 5 overnight, I decided that even if the seller responded I wouldn't offer, since it is crummy to pull auctions out from under people. Sadly some people don't seem to know when to let something go...

 

General Cheese,

 

I see no problem with that theory, As I've said before, If no bids placed, no harm done! Thanks for being a stand up guy.

 

Troy

USMC 2/2 Fox Co 0311 & 1st Recon Bn Delta Co. 0321. 1986 - 1995 (Desert Storm 90/91)

US Army Long Range Surveillance Co F 425th INF ABN LRS Team 1-6 2003 - 2005 (Iraqi Freedom 03/04)

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Troy....very occasionally we, the buyers, can have the last laugh! A few weeks ago I saw a military collectible on eBay which I knew I wanted. There were no bids at that point and 6 days to go. So, I contacted the seller and offered what I considered to be a fair BIN price. He didn't even have the courtesy to respond. So, I continued to monitor the item to the death and placed a bid with just seconds to go. I won....and paid barely half of the amount I'd previously offered and would have been prepared to pay. Needless to say, that gave me a good deal of personal satisfaction! I'm sure the seller wished he'd accepted my initial offer! :D

"We shall defend our island, whatever the cost may be. We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender!"

 

Winston Churchill

" Life is what happens to you when you're busy making other plans."

John Winston Lennon

 

 

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USMC-RECON0321

Troy....very occasionally we, the buyers, can have the last laugh! A few weeks ago I saw a military collectible on eBay which I knew I wanted. There were no bids at that point and 6 days to go. So, I contacted the seller and offered what I considered to be a fair BIN price. He didn't even have the courtesy to respond. So, I continued to monitor the item to the death and placed a bid with just seconds to go. I won....and paid barely half of the amount I'd previously offered and would have been prepared to pay. Needless to say, that gave me a good deal of personal satisfaction! I'm sure the seller wished he'd accepted my initial offer! :D

 

Ian,

 

Great story and yes that is the opposite end of the kinds of sellers mentioned, who find a WWII item, then search completed items, highest prices first, then list their standard late war liner thinking it will bring the price of an inland AB Liner??

 

Troy

USMC 2/2 Fox Co 0311 & 1st Recon Bn Delta Co. 0321. 1986 - 1995 (Desert Storm 90/91)

US Army Long Range Surveillance Co F 425th INF ABN LRS Team 1-6 2003 - 2005 (Iraqi Freedom 03/04)

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A lot of dealers use multiple channels to market their inventory and ebay can be one of them. But, if it sells elsewhere, then they have to cancel the ebay listing. Same as, for instance, putting an item up for sale in your local newspaper classifieds and on Craigslist: if it sells at one place, you cancel the listing at the other.

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USMC-RECON0321

A lot of dealers use multiple channels to market their inventory and ebay can be one of them. But, if it sells elsewhere, then they have to cancel the ebay listing. Same as, for instance, putting an item up for sale in your local newspaper classifieds and on Craigslist: if it sells at one place, you cancel the listing at the other.

 

Bob,

Yes I agree and understand that, but if you decide to auction it and the auction starts and bids have been received, reserve met etc.. the item is now technically sold to the high bidder and all others "for sale locations" should be ended with a "Sold" sign posted. Again the estate auction scenario, you are standing there bidding on an item against the others also bidding, do you think the owners of the item or auctioneers running the auction could stop in mid swing and say "oops, sorry we just got a call on our newspaper ad and it just sold"?

 

And most eBay auctions I see that do have it for sale else wheres, state that in their description to advise bidders, but even then I feel once you have bids or your reserve is met the auction should run its course at that point. Also, keep in mind I'm also putting some of the blame on the buyer, not just the seller. The buyer going behind all the bidders backs who were willing to bid is just as guilty in these shady dealings. Again it goes back to ethics. Just like Several have stated; If I see an item has been bid on, then I don't try and undercut them with a back door offer.

Troy

USMC 2/2 Fox Co 0311 & 1st Recon Bn Delta Co. 0321. 1986 - 1995 (Desert Storm 90/91)

US Army Long Range Surveillance Co F 425th INF ABN LRS Team 1-6 2003 - 2005 (Iraqi Freedom 03/04)

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Troy, I agree 100%! Not only is this type of deal unethical, it is also against eBay policy. Technically, all deals for items that are made outside of eBay but using eBay as the conduit are violations of policy. I'm with most everyone else here, if the item has no bids or hasn't met reserve, it's fair game. But the minute that item is "selling", it should go to the highest bidder. It's the sellers fault if they don't get as much as they want by not putting a high enough reserve on an item or not giving a "Buy It Now" accessible to all potential buyers. I have zero qualms against reporting sellers that violate basic selling ethics and eBay policy. If the seller has a legitimate reason for pulling the auction, they should be able to show that. If it is clearly a back door deal, eBay will show them the door. We reap what we sow.

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INTERESTED IN WWII ITEMS RELATED TO THE

CORPS OF ENGINEERS

 

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I, too, agree 100% with Troy on this and he brings up very valid points. I've been collecting for almost 2 years now and I have quickly learn that this hobby can be a very dog eat dog world. For me though, its a matter of ethics and maybe I'm a bit naïve in thinking that collectors would follow suit knowing what's morally right and wrong as I look at it as a sort of role reversal...I certainly don't like it when an auction ends early so why then would I turn around and undermine someone else's chance to purchase an item. If a seller has any intentions or possibilities of ending an auction early, a simple disclaimer stating that could be the case would suffice rather just pulling the plug. I just think it's a shady way to do business is all, but unfortunately I think this sort of thing will continue to occur.

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This crowd has gone deadly silent, a Cinderella story outta nowhere. Former greenskeeper and now about to become the masters champion....Carl Spackler

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I don't mean to sound like a hard rump. But when I click the "Confirm" button with my bid, I am entering a contract whereby I am stating that I am willing and able to pay up to the amount of my bid. On the same token, when I list an item for sale, once I click "Post" I am agreeing to sell the item under the parameters that I set.

 

As was stated earlier, you would never go to a live auction, place a bid on an item, and then have a secret individual buy the item for some underdetermined amount before the bidding ended. This only happens in online auctions where eBay loosened the rules to allow for unexpected circumstances, which people now take advantage. Why sell the item through eBay and pay their fees when you can just use their infrastructure for free advertising. I don't blame them for wanting to quell this practice just as much as we bidders hate to have items stolen out from under us.

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INTERESTED IN WWII ITEMS RELATED TO THE

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GOOD NEWS.

 

I talked to the a seller and he said he didn't sell it. He ended it and will relist it in a few weeks.

 

Really? That is good news. Good on you for asking.

 

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GOOD NEWS.

 

I talked to the a seller and he said he didn't sell it. He ended it and will relist it in a few weeks.

THIS... was about to be my point. I've ended auctions early several times in the past. Once, because I changed my mind and decided to keep the helmet. Once, because I realized my vacation started the day before the auction ended and I wouldn't be home for quite some time to be able to ship it. Once because a death occurred in the family and I just decided to shut down the whole thing. We shouldn't automatically assume the seller did something underhanded. And frankly, if he decided to sell it before the 12 hour limit imposed by ebay... he has done nothing wrong. Yes, it's annoying. Yes, it makes you want to pop a gasket. Yes, I feel slighted when this happens. BUT... it ain't mine. Move on and smile, something better is always on the way. :)

"There is no such thing as an expert, only students with different levels of education."

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