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Fantastic WW 1 301st patch


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For reference. Nice patch indeed!

 

-Ski

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In Memory Of......
Pte Harold Griffiths, 1805, 1/6th Manchester Regt, KIA June 4th, 1915 in Gallipoli
Cpl Isaac Judges, 40494, 6th East Yorkshire Regt, KIA October 3rd, 1917 in Ypres
May they rest in peace.....

MSgt - USAF Retired

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..

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In Memory Of......
Pte Harold Griffiths, 1805, 1/6th Manchester Regt, KIA June 4th, 1915 in Gallipoli
Cpl Isaac Judges, 40494, 6th East Yorkshire Regt, KIA October 3rd, 1917 in Ypres
May they rest in peace.....

MSgt - USAF Retired

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My question why would a very short lived leaping cat insignia for the 330th Tank Battalion morph into this insignia.A cat in a crouch with a campaign hat on its head with an armored insignia embroidered on the hat.The only thing missing is a WW1 tank behind the kitty.I hope some of the experts in WW1 insignia give their two cents worth I for one do not like this at all.Just my opinion but that what the forums all about.Scotty

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Bill-I am glad you said that. I am by no means a WWI patch guy, but this one doesn't look like any WWI patches I have ever seen. The odd canvas backing material, doesn't look right for WWI period. Maybe it's just my computer screen, but something just isn't sitting right for me.

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The patches listed by this seller all look like they are made by the same hand, without beating about the bush I will say it; They are all fake!, not made in a rest camp, not made right after the war, they were made yesterday. I own and have owned thousands of WWI patches and have viewed some of the largest WWI collections ever assembled and none of those patches look like these.

Please check out my militaria sales website;


Griffin Militaria

 

 

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wow, after reading the posts and looking at them deeper, I can see what everyones saying. theyre way too crisp and clean looking for the perios, and some like the balloon and the trench mortar are just really crisp looking and not like anything ive seen before. almost TOO detailed for the level of craftsmanship they had then as far as I can see. and hes got thousands of dollars in recent sales too. wow, just wow.

 

ASMIC 5212

ACTIVELY SEEKING 32ND INFANTRY REGIMENT ITEMS AND KOREAN MADE TOUR PATCHES 1946-1953!!!

 

 

 

 

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Here's another one that is strange. He sold a 17th Balloon Co, patch - see illustration. The story that went with the patch is the unit was based in the Phillippines. There were only a few stateside units (mostly divisions) which had patches in WW 1, and everyone else was in Europe. I would sure like to see some sort of documentation that this balloon unit had a patch in 1918-19. I wonder how many other WW 1 patches this seller has sold or has listed are for units that never had a patch? How many collectors are willing to take the time to research the subject of how many of these patches were actually worn by units? Where would they even find the information? post-622-0-73798700-1385156265.jpg

 

 

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I want to give you guys a big shout out. I don't think that many know or appreciate the extreme breadth of your collective experience and expertise, and how hard it is to stand up and speak the truth.especially when serious money is involved.

 

Thankfully, the originator of this thread had not just purchased this patch. Maybe this thread will cause enough buyers remorse that some of those unknowing soles who have, will take full advantage eBay's liberal return policies.

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Well, that patch caught my eye...And every bit of my brain that "wants to believe" kicked into action. But, thankfully, my logic side kicked in. I have a fair amount of 301st material and it is hard to link this patch to the 301st>>>OTHER than Company A they used this very rendition of Tom (albeit with "US" on the campaign hat as opposed to the more glamorous Tank Corp patch.

That link established, I will go onto to repeat, I have a fair amount of 301st uniforms, photos, research, scrapbooks, letters, etc. and this particular rendition of Tom is not "owned" by the 301st. This is the stylized cat that DOES appear in a lot of Tank Corps material of the time. That said, I see no reason to call this a 301st patch.

 

Attached is a photo of Tom from the cover of Co A, 301st Tank Bn's unit history

 

Treat em rough

 

JAG

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Top dollar paid for WWI AEF Tank Corps uniforms, medal groups, equipment and photos,
unit histories and rosters...especially anything associated with

301st (Heavy) Tank Bn
Drop me an email and let me know what you have.

 

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Here's a photo taken in France of our friend Tom above an FT17...clearly not directly associated with the 301st (which used British Mk V and V* rhomboid style tanks).

 

Tom, in that arched manner, was a typical Tank Corps logo, not associated with any particular battalion, but the Tank Corps in general. That said, the theme of the patch doesn't surprise me, though the construction and details sure have given me cause to say Hmmmm.

 

post-949-0-83601200-1385167207.jpg post-949-0-63051600-1385167378.jpg

Top dollar paid for WWI AEF Tank Corps uniforms, medal groups, equipment and photos,
unit histories and rosters...especially anything associated with

301st (Heavy) Tank Bn
Drop me an email and let me know what you have.

 

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I guess when you sell reproductions as originals, you would bid on them as well...this should get moved to Fake Alerts

Looking for items from the 38th Infantry Regiment

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"Live for something rather than die for nothing."

-General George S. Patton Jr.

 

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A quick check of his feedback shows:

 

a) all the auctions are private listings

 

B) two bidders seem to "win" a very large proportion of the auctions.

 

Seems a little odd.

The three best things in life are a good landing, a good orgasm, and a good bowel movement.

A night carrier landing is one of the few opportunities to experience all three at the same time.

 

You can not pronounce as knowledge anything you can not demonstrate.

 

 

 

 

ASMIC Secretary

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Was waiting to see what the forum said on this, At the last SOS there was an impromtu meeting of the experts about this seller: Dan Griffin,Chris Aleck ,DickGraney,Dave Johnson just to mention afew as well as myself.The consenus was great fakes to put it simply. I had gotten burned early but kind of got suspicious when all of this crazy unbelievable patches were showing up. Emphasis of most of the patches is AERO related and also variations that no one had seen before and in quantity. From what I have been able learn he has alot of knowledge especially related to aviation unit and does sell items not WW1 that are good. He has fooled many including myself! Mort

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I bid on this piece but was quickly outgunned.I've nothing to add regarding it's origins but I will say this;the embroidery is magnificent.As for the Balloon piece in post #12,I did some research and found the unit was active in the early years of WW2,even a few years prewar if I remember correctly.

High Flight

Oh, I have slipped the surly bonds of earth

And danced the skies on laughter-silver wings;

Sunward I've climbed and joined the tumbling mirth

Of sun-split clouds - and done a hundred things

You have not dreamed of - wheeled and soared and swung

High in the sunlit silence. Hovering there

I've chased the shouting wind along and flung

My eager craft through footless halls of air.

Up, up the long delirious, burning blue

I've topped the wind-swept heights with easy grace,

where never lark, or even eagle flew;

and while, with silent, lifting mind I've trod

The high untrespassed sanctity of space,

Put out my hand, and touched the face of God.

 

John Gillespie Magee, Jr.

June 9, 1922 – December 11, 1941

 

 

 

" And each man stands with his face in the light of his own drawn sword. Ready to do what a hero can." - Elizabeth Barrett Browning

 

 

Don't let the B@stards wear you down -"Vinegar" Joe Stillwell

 

 

Reasonable people adapt themselves to the world.Unreasonable

people attempt to adapt the world to themselves.All progress,

therefore, depends on unreasonable people.

George Bernard Shaw

 

 

" Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining" , Fletcher,from the movie "The outlaw Josey Wales"

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After writing reply #12, and being able to get back on the computer I share w/ my XO, Kindley Field was in Bermuda, not the Philippines. See? That seller screwed me up! Still need to see documentation that company had a patch 1918-19. It's funny, but somehow every item that closed (except for four today) w/in the past 15 days is now gone. They were there this a.m.

 

Another patch he had was a 1920s-30s 1st Cav Air Section patch - but with a prop on the patch. This represents two different eras of patches - the 1920s-30s and the 1950s, when the 1st Cav Div air section (w/ black horse head and bend) had a prop emb on it.

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Member, ASMIC.

Editor, ASMIC's The Trading Post

ASMIC Executive VP

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Kindley Field was in Bermuda, not the Philippines.

I found these references online:

 

Kindley Air Force Base, also known as Kindley Field, a World War II airfield in Bermuda, was named in his honor, as was Kindley Field in the Philippines, a small auxiliary airstrip on Corregidor.

 

 

 

It appears as if there were two Kindley Airfields.

 

The Kindley Field in the P.I was established early,in the 20's I believe.

 

 

At the time of the auction,I presumed that the "Kindley" Balloon patch was a postwar(WW1) piece,and assumed it was made in the 20's or 30's.

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High Flight

Oh, I have slipped the surly bonds of earth

And danced the skies on laughter-silver wings;

Sunward I've climbed and joined the tumbling mirth

Of sun-split clouds - and done a hundred things

You have not dreamed of - wheeled and soared and swung

High in the sunlit silence. Hovering there

I've chased the shouting wind along and flung

My eager craft through footless halls of air.

Up, up the long delirious, burning blue

I've topped the wind-swept heights with easy grace,

where never lark, or even eagle flew;

and while, with silent, lifting mind I've trod

The high untrespassed sanctity of space,

Put out my hand, and touched the face of God.

 

John Gillespie Magee, Jr.

June 9, 1922 – December 11, 1941

 

 

 

" And each man stands with his face in the light of his own drawn sword. Ready to do what a hero can." - Elizabeth Barrett Browning

 

 

Don't let the B@stards wear you down -"Vinegar" Joe Stillwell

 

 

Reasonable people adapt themselves to the world.Unreasonable

people attempt to adapt the world to themselves.All progress,

therefore, depends on unreasonable people.

George Bernard Shaw

 

 

" Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining" , Fletcher,from the movie "The outlaw Josey Wales"

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I am a big believer in photography as documents. If a person shelled out that much for a patch in 1919, my belief is they are going to show it off where ever they can, including the photographer's studio. I have NOT seen this patch depicted in any historic photograph.

 

I will add to that, I have never seen a photograph of the purported "330th Tank Bn" patch worn on the breast of a jacket, yet I can list more than a dozen examples of extant jackets. Assuming that a company or even a platoon of the 330th had these cats sewn on the front of their jackets (and in one instance, at least, overcoat), I would expect to have seen a photograph of at least one guy wearing it. I have only seen one panoramic of a company of the 330th and no one had leaping Toms on their jackets. Would love to see panoramics of the other two companies to test this theory.

 

I proudly display one 330th tunic in my collection, and have had a chance to examine a tunic and overcoat identified to a guy in Company B. They are convincing, but I sure would like to see a period photographic or reference to support them!

 

For those who aren't sure what I am describing, I am attaching a photo of my 330th tunic (on the right) along with the famous leaping Tom on which the insignia is based:

 

post-949-0-38538600-1385221818.jpg.

 

BTW, Mort raises a VALUABLE point to consider when looking at "one-of-a-kind" patches. Patches are meant to be sold in quantity. If someone (other than a loved one, probably) made ONE patch, he/she made a bunch of them. There is no profit in single sales...quantity is where the money is at. And patch makers knew that as well as any other business at the time. If there was ONE arched Tom cat wearing a Tank Corps campaign hat patch, there should be two, three or one hundred. Obviously a privately purchased item, the buyer would be cognisant of their purchase, and therefore, less likely to throw away the patch in later years. It would have had monetary value in addition to emotional. Those two factors contribute to survivability of artifacts. So, using that logic, we should have learned of this patch BEFORE it debuted on eBay. Veteran patch collectors would have already been familiar with it. From what I can gather from this thread (ha-ha...get it, "Thread?"), the hard-hitter gurus of patches whom I consider to be very knowledgable, have not said, "Oh yes, I have seen this before." That is pretty telling, in my humble ol' opinion.

 

Thanks for reading my ramblings,

 

Treat Em Rough!

JAG

 

 

Top dollar paid for WWI AEF Tank Corps uniforms, medal groups, equipment and photos,
unit histories and rosters...especially anything associated with

301st (Heavy) Tank Bn
Drop me an email and let me know what you have.

 

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I concur with everyone above. I saw this on eBay and was very tempted to bid. The embroidery and detail were magnificent. I loved this patch. But, after reviewing his other items and calculating the probability that one source would have acquired this many unheard of specimens, it became obvious that he is dealing in extraordinary quality fantasy stuff. The patch is a 10 in terms of the "visual" factor, but it is almost certainly not real.

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