EGA Question

[Tim B]

Guys,

 

 

These EGA's always confuse me. Are they SpanAm era, WW1 and what is difference between these two examples, maker, cap, ??

 

First one:

 

 

[Tim B]

Inside:

[Tim B]

Second example:

 

I notice a slight difference in the eagles (body, wings, etc.), anchor and how the rope lays.

[Tim B]

Insides and why does that post look like a brass machine screw cemented inside the globe?

 

Just trying to learn these and I did not see much on this style in the reference section.

 

Thank you,

 

Tim

[teufelhunde.ret]

Both are issue type for EM Barracks cover. The first came into use post 1900 when the reg's first called for the use of Bronze. The second came into use pre WW1. Both were seen on WW1 painted helmets and not uncommon to see these in use after the war

[Tim B]

Thanks! Does that center screw on the 2nd EGA look legit, or a replacement?

[Brig]

Looks legit

[Tim B]

Thanks for that.

 

As I've stated to Darrell sometime back, this has not been a primary area of collecting for me, so it's almost back to basics in many regards.

 

So, am I to understand, these two examples I show here are actually for the garrison type cap (pisscutter)?

 

Tim

[teufelhunde.ret]

Pre WW1 Barracks Cover only

[Tim B]

Thank you again.

 

I am trying to limit myself to the dress/service cap/field hat devices at this point. So, for a newbie EGA collector, I use this for a basic reference, but it really doesn't show all the manufacturer variations. Still learning.

 

Thanks guys!

 

Tim

[Tim B]

The other point of confusion for me was originally thinking the "barracks" cover was the garrison style cap. I now realize it's really the "service" cap.

[teufelhunde.ret]

The overseas cover came into use during WW1 using the large EGA. After that period, when it was adopted, the collar size emblem was used.

[Tim B]

Thanks Darrell,

 

Here's a basic question:

 

Am I correct when looking at these cap devices, if the rope is separately applied (like the example shown on the left) it's indicative of an officer's cap insignia, and if solid or incorporated into the EGA (right example), then it's indicative of an enlisted device? In all cases and eras?

 

Tim

[Brig]

As far as cover emblems go, for the most part, yes. Officer emblems have separately applied ropes on both collar and cover devices. However, some emblems out there (spiked helmet emblems, for instance) there are still stamped/cast with the emblem.

 

As for collar emblems, neither officer nor enlisted emblem regulations required a rope on collar devices until 1956

 

Additionally, with officer emblems both collar and cover, at about WWI the continents began to be applied separately. That is, they are applied atop the globe, whereas enlisted emblems never have had applied continents

[normaninvasion]

Tim B, where is that plate from and does it date from the 1920s? Thanks Jeff

[Tim B]

Hi Brig,

 

Yes, I noticed the collar insignia are without ropes for the most part.

 

I do see various maker's examples of the 1937 pattern that have applied continents and am the most comfortable with these thus far, just trying to expand out to other eras.

 

I do currently have these two H-H sterling examples, one which I believe is WW2 and the other post WW2, based on hardware and minor details.

 

Tim

[Tim B]

Tim B, where is that plate from and does it date from the 1920s? Thanks Jeff

 

Jeff,

 

It's the 1937 Marine Corps Uniform Regulations. If I remember correctly, there is a downloadable link in one of the older threads here.

 

If you can't find it, PM me with your email address and I can try to email you the .pdf file. It's about 75 megabytes.

 

Tim

[normaninvasion]

Ahh yes, I will be able to get that. In all these years I never looked at it. Has some nice shots of 1920s headgear

[Tim B]

Jeff,

 

Okay then.

 

FYI, I would like to see a post-WW2 (circa 1947-1955) copy of the Marines Awards manual & Uniform Regulations, if anyone has one.

 

Tim

[Brig]

markings are the big indicators of era...I'd venture to say from the fronts that both are WWII

[Tim B]

Hi Brig,

 

That was my guess initially as well but, I understand this H-H pattern continued to be used into the 1960's. I suspect its really impossible to say exactly when Hilborn-Hamburger stopped using these, as the company was still in business in 2007.

 

The example on the left above came with the zinc roller, while the example on the right has a brass roller. That was my first assumption. Here's the two (front/back) and any "pointers" or indicators would be very beneficial, for me at least.

 

[Tim B]

Here's the 2nd example with the brass roller:

[Tim B]

There are minor die-type differences, namely on the eagle and the hallmark/metal content marks. But, what got me thinking about the differences and one reason I would like to see later regulations, is where the rotating spike is.

 

From the 1937 Uniform Regs:

 

[Tim B]

Specifically...

 

So, thinking that a major manufacturer of the time would follow the regs, the spike is where the regs specify on the zinc roller example, but located higher on the eagle's head on the brass roller example.

 

??

 

Tim

[Brig]

Sterling was more of a mid-late war measure taken to save on brass, which was placed on the restricted materials list. Post war, H&H started incorporating other marks into their insignias. VIKING and SER ### were the big ones. Around Korea, the finish went to a shiny coat

 

Post war, the ropes also tended to come in and ride right along the anchor as well for some reason

 

If these were in accordance with regulations, they'd still be out of regs by that order as they are not "of dull-finish bronze metal throughout". Pre 56, orders were quite often poorly enforced. Heck, H&H was driven out of business because of a fine imposed due to failure to follow regulations/standards in brass quality

 

I've seen a lot of variation in location of pin placements on different emblems. I'd like to see a reg that specifically says the spike had to be in the head on a different version. I never try to date a piece by the roller, as they were so commonly replaced

 

I'll take some side-by-sides of my H&H covers later for comparison purposes