Hall Mark Help Please

[hawk3370]

I've seen this hall mark before but can't recall what company it represents. Any of you guys got the answer? Thanks,

Terry

 

[Tim B]

Looks like an Iron & Russell "I in the diamond" mark. Search I&R in the medal section of the forum and you should find a couple of threads.

 

Tim

[hawk3370]

Looks like an Iron & Russell "I in the diamond" mark. Search I&R in the medal section of the forum and you should find a couple of threads.

 

Tim

 

Tim,

Thanks, will give it a shot.

[patches]

What is this badge, is it an WWII or earlier Officers Collar Branch Badge?

[hawk3370]

What is this badge, is it an WWII or earlier Officers Collar Branch Badge?

 

I think its a WW2 period cap badge or sweetheart wing. Isn't mine, belongs to a friend so I don't have it in hand.

 

Terry

[WPAFB]

Iron & Russell
provenance, RI

Charles F. Irons established the business in 1861 making jewelry. Mr. Charles Russell started work as an errand boy in 1875 and worked his way up by hard work and continuing his education. In 1881 he became a partner and in 1893 the company name was changed to Iron & Russell. In 1968 the company was sold to S. Scarf, Inc. and is a division of Barrows Industries.

[CliffP]

 

HI Terry,

 

Contrary to what JW or any others wish to speculate that pin was not made by Irons & Russell. I have a matching pair myself but was never able to properly identify the trademark.

 

Cliff

 

[Tim B]

Cliff,

 

Respectfully,

 

Irons * Russell had more than one hallmark over the years. The "I in a diamond" is a registered trademark for that company.

 

 

[Tim B]

and an earlier hallmark, circa WW1

[jmar]

Hello all,

 

I'm with Tim B on this, from the number range on LOMs and their marking on the planchet suspension loop to the back of WW II Silver Stars, the I in the diamond is Irons and Russell. I just picked this little set on Ebay, haven't received it yet but it shows the I&R Diamond with yet another iteration of the hallmark on the back of the insignia.

 

Best to all!

 

Joe

 

 

 

[jmar]

[CliffP]

Cliff,

 

Respectfully,

 

Irons * Russell had more than one hallmark over the years. The "I in a diamond" is a registered trademark for that company.

 

 

 

Tim,

 

To be perfectly clear, I am not disputing that an "I in a diamond" trademark as seen in post #8 is a registered hallmark for Irons & Russell.

 

What I am saying is that the trademark seen on the pin in Terry's post #1 is not an "I in a diamond" at all.

 

I am also saying that to imply it might be a trademark used by Irons & Russell does not make it an absolute fact - to say otherwise is only speculation.

 

For closer examination of the trademark posted by Terry see the illustration below.

 

Cliff

[Tim B]

Cliff,

 

You make a point, that only a person that has this item actually in hand can make that determination, that's why I initially stated "looks like" that Iron & Russell hallmark. However, enlarging a photo that did not have the best resolution to begin with is not the answer to a valid argument either IMO.

 

I have seen other items where the hallmark is quite small, the Silver Star medal is a good case in point, where the upper and lower part of the hallmark (where the horizontal lines of the "I" touch the diamond, make it appear rounded or within a circle. It only appears that way but are in fact "I" in a diamond. I've looped them and have determined it depends on the sharpness of the stamp.

 

As for this particular piece, I don't have it in hand, that will be up to those that do to make a closer inspection. I am quite perplexed though that, for a person that freely admits "was never able to properly identify the trademark" you have no problem stating someone else's opinions are wrong here?

 

Have a good day!

[CliffP]

Tim,

 

As stated earlier, I have a pair of the identical pins with the same trademark on the back in my collection and I can say with complete assurance the trademark is not the letter "I in a diamond."

 

However, I was never able to identify (or match) the trademark to a known manufacturer . . . and unless you or someone else can prove otherwise, there is no proof it was ever used by Irons & Russell.

 

Therefore, if you wish to split hairs, your opinion that the trademark was used by that firm is just that, an opinion based on speculation, not on fact.

 

Cliff

[Tim B]

Cliff,

 

Then I suggest you take some good clear close up PIC's and post them here and state what you think the mark shows. Should be a fairly simple task. Please enlighten us.

[CliffP]

Tim,

 

Providing images of the two identical pins in my collection was the easy part. The hard part is eating crow.

 

The trademark on both my pins appears at first glance to be the letter "T" but when viewed through a high powered jewelers loop you can definitely see the faint outline of a letter "I" in a diamond.

 

Below are front and rear images of my two pins. Under them I've drawn a better outline of the letter "I" on the image provided by Terry,

 

Cliff

[Tim B]

Morning Cliff,

 

First, I think discussions like this are important, though sometimes perhaps hard, they do add to the overall knowledge base for collectors. Unfortunately, the 100& sure way is either having the various company contract files or getting the information from TIoH on what manufacturer's had government contracts and any details on hallmarks etc. TIoH would be the best, one-source, in my view but I imagine they don't share that information. All we do have to go on, is the labeled issue box, case, cardboard sleeve...

 

I have no issues here, not with you or anyone else, just tried to help another member out.

 

Take care. Oh, tried to send you peace offering via PM last night but your box is "not accepting new messages", so...

 

No worries, btw, I heard crow was best eaten with lots of salsa!!!

 

Tim

[rustywings]

Check out the similarities of a "Otto Reichardt" diamond-style hallmark. They began business in 1922, in New York.

 

With a smudged or poor die-strike, it might be Cliff's hallmark?

 

 

http://www.925-1000.com/americansilver_R2.html

 

[Tim B]

That one has a stylized "O" & "R" in the center though. I'm pretty sure what we're actually looking at is the "I" in a diamond.

 

Keep in mind that many manufacturer's spung up in the late 1800's to early 1900's. Some merged, some went out of business. When major contracts were awarded, the bigger companies, often with their connections, got the inside track and often the lion's share of awarded contracts.

 

Irons & Russell apparently got smaller contracts and like several of these obscure hallmarks, we don't know a lot about them as they are not as prolific as Balfour, H-H, etc. I&R manufactured precious metal jewelry, jewelry making tools and supplies, fine jewelry, imitation jewelry and military and fraternal type insignia. They are still in business today.

 

Tim

[5thwingmarty]

I just picked up one of these little badges (1" span).  When I first looked I thought it was a D in a diamond, but I believe it is an I in a diamond.  The front is the same as that posted by Cliff.