salfred Posted November 4, 2013 Share #1 Posted November 4, 2013 I thought it might be worth sharing this group to the forum. According to the listing: CAPTAIN JACQUES SWAAB 22ND AERO SQUADRON DSC, 2X SILVER STARS AND PURPLE HEART. RECOMMENDED AND APPROVED FOR THE AWARD OF THE MEDAL OF HONOR. Of American pilots serving exclusively with the USsquadrons, Jaques Swaab was the 3rd highest scoring Ace of WW1. The two higher scoring were the Rickenbacker with 26, flying from March 1918 and the remarkable Frank Luke with 18 from July 1918. Swaab first saw action in September 1918 and spent several weeks in hospital after being wounded, had 10 confirmed and a further up to 7 unconfirmed in just 65 hours in the air! one of, if not the highest of any Nation for hours flown to victories . The first 3 scored on his first flight over the front during an epic encounter in which he was seriously wounded, passed out and crashed his aircraft.. Of all American pilots serving during WW1, Swaab was joint 25th highest scoring Ace, however the vast majority of the others had served with the RFC or French Air service for a good time (some years), many of these never serving in a US squadron. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AMAZING-WW1-TOP-US-FIGHTER-ACES-GALLANTRY-MEDAL-BADGE-PHOTO-GROUP-DSC-PH-2x-SS-/111200070034?pt=UK_Collectables_Militaria_LE&hash=item19e40a6992 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhcoleterracina Posted November 5, 2013 Share #2 Posted November 5, 2013 Looks very nice, wish I had the money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Militiaman Posted November 5, 2013 Share #3 Posted November 5, 2013 That is really nice. I'm glad it's all stayed together over the years. Rob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDK Posted November 5, 2013 Share #4 Posted November 5, 2013 Big money, but it looks like a great group!! JD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabrejet Posted November 5, 2013 Share #5 Posted November 5, 2013 Think I'll just look down the back of the sofa for some loose change! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Hudson Posted November 5, 2013 Share #6 Posted November 5, 2013 That's a US $40,000 starting price! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary B Posted November 5, 2013 Share #7 Posted November 5, 2013 Beautiful and historic group but I have doubts that it will hit the asking price. I believe it is priced more accurately if one takes out the pound to USD conversion rate, or approximately $25K USD. Gary B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted November 5, 2013 Share #8 Posted November 5, 2013 This group has been discussed a couple times over the years. Tom Nier said it brought "over $15K" when auctioned (not sure when that was though) back when it was discussed in 2009: http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/61876-ww1-aviation-experts-whats-it-worth/ It was also up for auction in Germany in 2011: http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/102852-wow-great-ww1-grouping-4sale-in-germany/ I wonder if it has ever sold when it's been offered the last few times, or if the same guy keeps moving it around, hoping for a "big fish" to bite... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
History Man Posted November 5, 2013 Share #9 Posted November 5, 2013 Amazing group with some pretty fantastic history with it, can't get much better than that combination to a WW1 aviator with kills! That reminds me, anyone in the market for a kidney? Philip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Javelin4life Posted November 5, 2013 Share #10 Posted November 5, 2013 Phillip, I'm sure I can talk to some people at the hospitali do my rotations at to help you out ? This group is amazing. The history behind the original recipient is the icing on the cake. If I had the money id buy this in an instant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medalman90 Posted November 5, 2013 Share #11 Posted November 5, 2013 Dynamite group. Maybe i can have it in my dreams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlebuddy Posted November 5, 2013 Share #12 Posted November 5, 2013 strange that it is here in the UK ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabrejet Posted November 6, 2013 Share #13 Posted November 6, 2013 Unsold. The price was evidently set too high! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Nier Posted November 6, 2013 Share #14 Posted November 6, 2013 The Swaab group passed through the Bonhams & Butterfield Auction of 9 Dec. 2003 in San Francisco, where it sold for $16,000. The DSC is #6256, the SSM/small olc is #9839, and his PH is #69539. A short note with this data was published in the March-April 2004 issue of JOMSA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDK Posted November 6, 2013 Share #15 Posted November 6, 2013 A beautiful group, but probably worth around half the start price of this auction. Although, if money was of no concern, I probably would make the seller a offer he couldn't refuse! JD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabrejet Posted November 6, 2013 Share #16 Posted November 6, 2013 Probably one of those high-end groupings bought by successive "collectors" as an investment rather than for the love of it. Each time it changes hands the ticket price increases exponentially. It appears to have reached its ceiling! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary B Posted November 6, 2013 Share #17 Posted November 6, 2013 I think $20K USD is a good starting point for this group. I could see it go for over $25K. Gary B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Hudson Posted November 6, 2013 Share #18 Posted November 6, 2013 Unsold. The price was evidently set too high! Maybe next time they need to offer free shipping! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted November 6, 2013 Share #19 Posted November 6, 2013 Maybe next time they need to offer free shipping! Yep... $193 for shipping was the deal breaker for me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herman v Posted November 6, 2013 Share #20 Posted November 6, 2013 Tom, is the number of the PH correct? #69539 is a Metal Arts Co manufactured heart with a bent slot brooch. The picture shows a split brooch. Furthermore the German seller quotes in 2010 that Swaab got his PH in 1932 which points to a BB&B heart. But he can be wrong by mentioning the first year the PH was created. I think the AGO card on the heart must have the answer. Maybe i'm just over reacting. Best rgrds Herman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teamski Posted November 6, 2013 Share #21 Posted November 6, 2013 Beautiful and historic group but I have doubts that it will hit the asking price. I believe it is priced more accurately if one takes out the pound to USD conversion rate, or approximately $25K USD. Gary B No, he is correct, it starts at $39,800 which is over the top, I think. Considering the auction history, the medal group won't sell for that much. -Ski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
History Man Posted November 7, 2013 Share #22 Posted November 7, 2013 I just noticed the pound symbol next to the price, while this group is absolutely amazing....I do not see someone putting $40,000 + into it. As Tom noted, I could see this group go into the $20K - $25K region. Philip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Nier Posted November 7, 2013 Share #23 Posted November 7, 2013 Tom, is the number of the PH correct? #69539 is a Metal Arts Co manufactured heart with a bent slot brooch. The picture shows a split brooch. Furthermore the German seller quotes in 2010 that Swaab got his PH in 1932 which points to a BB&B heart. But he can be wrong by mentioning the first year the PH was created. I think the AGO card on the heart must have the answer. Maybe i'm just over reacting. Best rgrds Herman Herman ---- You make a good point, that I had overlooked. The simplest explanation would be an extra numeral inserted as a typo in the lot description. And nobody caught the error, which then became permanent over time. Maybe the PH number really was 6953 or 9539??? The award card copy from St. Louis will finally settle this question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Liontas Posted December 8, 2013 Share #24 Posted December 8, 2013 I think $20K USD is a good starting point for this group. I could see it go for over $25K. Gary B I think it was offered several years ago for 25K in the US and didn't sell. The feeling then, was this is an awesome group, but with no uniform the price is hard to substantiate over 20K Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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