WWII Camillus Life Raft Knife

[dustin]

Thanks for the catalog Gary. So it seems the change over to the underline was earlier than I thought. Possibly 1946 was this "new" change as with the numbering of the main blade. It is my strong opinion that the knife Sactroop posted is post war. First of course is the underline but also the scales are a heavily defined acetate stag which wasn't prevalent on war time manufacture. The other point is the brass pins and am sure brass spacers, these are features that I am not aware of in war time manufacture of the 3 blade. Sometimes in research I find it useful to work backwards and when you look at known post war manufactured Camillus pocket knives most if not all have the underline. We also know the 3 line was introduced in 1944. Now with Gary's catalog we have a 1946 date illustrating the underline, we are now very close to the transition. If you look at late Camillus manufactured knives with all brass and 3 line main blade they still are not underlined.

My theory in light of the catalog Camillus made this change as part of their "new" post war industry look. So the transition is ..the war ended so did government contracts, time to market their knives commercially and part of this process we now have the underline. Of course just speculation.

[sactroop]

I think it maybe helpful to some here to point out that we generally refer to many of the Camillus tangs stamps as 3-line vs. 4-line. When it comes to 3-line tang stamps there’s more to it as far as what you’ll come across.

Camillus catalog #46 is the first commercial catalog that Camillus produced shortly after the end of WW2. As Bayonetman referred to here are some images from that catalog of the different tang stamps represented in that catalog. We should consider that the images in that catalog are illustrations and therefore can be subject to “artistic impression” by the one who drew them.

These underlined CAMILLUS marks are short, for lack of a better descriptor, compared to the one on the knife I posted above. I’ve seen actual examples of knives with these shorter underlines although no rock solid provenance with them to say exactly when they were made.

As far as looking at catalogs go the first representation of the fully underlined CAMILLUS tang stamp I’ve seen is from a 1954 catalog.

Now I don’t regard knife catalogs as encyclopedias of provenance so I don’t want to imply that the fully underlined CAMILLUS tang stamp didn’t exist before 1954.

I’ve been curious in regards to the acquisition of various knives, as well as other things, for the government in the years after WW2 to the 1960’s. So seeing the knife I posted above just got me wondering again about what may have taken place.

 

[Vik Plas]

Hi Dustin,
thanks for this interesting topic!
Please identify my two IMPERIAL knives.
Is this the correct USAAF type?
Thank you

[2MOB]

On 10/21/2013 at 8:34 PM, dustin said:

Photographic evidence in use with AAF multi person life rafts.

Photo taken in 1943...note the off set clevice with the apparent plastic scales, also it can be seen the clevice is not riveted.

 

This photo taken in 1944 clearly shows the same off set detail and clipped position on bolster.

[2MOB]

Just now, 2MOB said:

I think I might have made an error here.  I wanted to add to the incredibly informative and worthwhile posts that Dustin usually makes and offer this example as a sort of question in the same topic.  It has the scales Dustin spoke of, and they are deteriorating slowly, but still intact.  It is also entirely steel, no brass at all.  It has the late war Camillus tang stamp and the Camillus can opener (the pre safety 44 version).  The examples Dustin showed are, of course, three blades and this is a 4 blade.  I cant find another example like this and I dont really know where it fits on the WWII spectrum.  I would sincerely appreciate anyone's opinion, best guess, even a witty retort or two.  By the way, Dustin, if you read this- not to get all mooshy or anything, but I am an older guy, retired and with disabilities.  This hobby is something interesting, with lots of aspects I have a personal connection to.  What it doesnt have is a lot of information and there are a lot of questions.  You are one of those guys that fill in the gaps.  You have invested a lot of time and effort into this, and to be honest, not all people would share it like you do.   The point here is that guys like you are genuinely appreciated.  Everything you and Sactroop and Thorin and all the other guys do keeps my interest going, sends me in another direction and answers another dozen questions or so that I have had in my mind for years...   so thank you.  Thank all of you, actually.  

[sactroop]

The combination of that 3 line main blade and that specific style can opener is a bit of a head scratcher for me.  That style can opener was very common before WW2, especially abundant in "unofficial" scout knives made by a lot of different manufactures.

As far as I've ever been able to tell when the War started for the U.S. regarding Camillus knives I've never come across that style can opener again.  I can say the same for the Imperial Knife Associated Companies in general, but there might be examples of knives made after the War to match an earlier style that I'm not aware of.  

So for that Camillus knife it seems odd how those two parts came together.  Maybe it's nothing more than a knife owner sending his knife to Camillus and having a broken or worn out main blade replaced. (??)

[2MOB]

Thats exactly what this is- a head scratcher.  Its definitely war time, because its all metal.  It has the composition acetate/cellulose handles.  It has the bail but not in the center of the bolster- lower down like on the life raft/emergency knives. 

 Heres a can opener question:  The stamping CanOpener.  I have not seen a can opener with that stamping before the safety can opener came out in 44-45.  Its almost as if the design was so new someone said 'we better mark this CanOpener or someone might use it for something bad'.   After that time period I see all kinds and versions even up to today marked CanOpener.   And this old stlye Camillus has the marking!  Head Scratcher, like you say.   And I still have no idea who used this..4 blades engineer type.  The Army?  Air Corps?  Navy?   I'm scratching the head alright....Thanks for the insight sactroop!

[dustin]

Indeed unusual. I would like to throw out that it could be a Frankenstein knife, meaning assembled from parts after the war. It is overall in line with the Engineer knife Camillus produced except the can opener type. The clevis is also not the typical attachment on those knives. 

[2MOB]

10 hours ago, dustin said:

Indeed unusual. I would like to throw out that it could be a Frankenstein knife, meaning assembled from parts after the war. It is overall in line with the Engineer knife Camillus produced except the can opener type. The clevis is also not the typical attachment on those knives. 

I had the same thought Dustin.  I just couldnt reconcile it with the fact that this is an all steel/no brass.  Didnt seem probable that this would be left in a corner until after the war, then put together.   I looked it over again and again and it really seems intact and original (which doesnt make it so).  Anyway, thanks for helping out.  I really was hoping to get some light shed on this.