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Has collecting military items destroyed our love of history?


cutiger83
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Lately I have seen forum members criticizing movies they have not seen. They want to debate books they have not read. They want to argue over whether a certain piece of military equipment was actually used on D-Day. They want to say an item is fake without holding it in hand or really knowing everything there is to know about that item. I see thread after thread turning into a fight that is eventually cleaned up and/or locked.

 

Have we become self described experts? Are we all knowing and all seeing? Do we sometimes look too close at things to try to find something wrong in order to prove we are above everyone else? Are we stripping away the enjoyment of watching a movie, reading a book, or just seeing a collection?

 

What about the historical aspect? When posts are put on the forum regarding a day in history, it barely gets a passing sniff. Yet when a new movie is mentioned or an item such as a helmet is shown, the thread is picked apart ad nauseam. As an example, the Helmet section has 162 pages of threads while the Military History Discussion section has only 18 pages.

 

When is the last time some of you picked up a history book and read it from cover to cover? When did we lose the enjoyment of actually learning about history?

 

...Kat

 

 

 

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I have never lost my love of history !! and yes i do agree on what you are saying Kat , i do hope for one, that im not on your hit list there ???

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I read history daily. I love it. I have a passion for my family's role in shaping this country.

I agree that what you are observing is part of a larger concern...but I don't think that it centers on folks' lost sight for history. It is more of an Internet phenomenon of eroding decorum, dignity, respect and humble dialog between humans. It is a societal challenge to get passed the desire for immediate gratification. To lay down our differences and to think the best of others (while preserving a healthy measure self-preservative guarding) would go a long way in changing what you see here.

Just to be clear, this forum is very well-moderated and most folks are extremely respectful and gracious to others. Compared to other forums, this site is light-years ahead (or behind...depending on your perspective) when it comes to these issues you've outlined.

 

...

 

When is the last time some of you picked up a history book and read it from cover to cover? When did we lose the enjoyment of actually learning about history?

 

...Kat

 

 

 

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Kat, there are members who have spent a long period of time collecting, they know it all, they cannot be wrong. Here, one eyed Jack's are king, in the land of the blind.

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Well said Kat. I would also add that we are special people. Not everyone is into the history and objects that we, the forum members, are. That makes us different and I think in a good way. it is something we should recognize and celebrate WITH and FOR each other.

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Catfishcraig

Guilty as charged. Not that I don't love the history but I sometimes get consumed about looking at the pictures others post. Thanks for the slap in the face! I needed that

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HolyHappiness

Excellent observation, Kat! I've noticed the same thing. Not as much on this forum as I have at shows. There are many collectors who are interested in WHAT the item is as well as its WORTH. I for one see an item and reminiscence where that item has been and who has had it. I like militaria collecting for the "where it's been" aspect and not the "what it's worth" aspect.

 

Nathan

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Well spoken, thanks for the thoughts. Sometimes we need to get back to our roots and why we started our hobbies in the first place.

 

Thanks very much for the post and creating a discussion around this issue.

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doinworkinvans

Excellent observation, Kat! I've noticed the same thing. Not as much on this forum as I have at shows. There are many collectors who are interested in WHAT the item is as well as its WORTH. I for one see an item and reminiscence where that item has been and who has had it. I like militaria collecting for the "where it's been" aspect and not the "what it's worth" aspect.

 

Nathan

Thats what I do too...I do tend to spend alot of money on it.

 

But I tend to think "hmmm...wonder where this was during 1944?"

 

That's what gives me my kicks!

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It's always been about the story behind the object. Actually seeing, touching and smelling an object makes the history behind it that much more interesting and somewhat real.

 

I am constantly reading non-fiction and always have several books close at hand or next to my bed. Even at my age, I have not lost my thirst for knowledge, especially historical knowledge.

 

Good thread!

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Thanks Kat,

 

Sometimes a cool bucket of water thrown in my face is what I need to snap back to reality and gain perspective on things.

 

You have enlightened us and I for one appreciate all of your contributions to the forum.

 

Leigh

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Seeking truth is the most noble and important thing an individual or institution can ever do. Never apologize to anyone for doing so in ANY endeavor.

 

 

Too many people now think truth is secondary. No one likes a fake or fraud anywhere, including history and militaria.

 

 

You must always constructively stick up for what you know to be true.

 

 

 

 

W

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SergeantMajorGray

I still love military history and non military history occasionally I'll read some of the books I have too. I do criticize movies now when they have the wrong equipment I don't pick apart every flaw but when it's obvious they didn't even try to be accurate I do.

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Thanks Kat,

 

Sometimes a cool bucket of water thrown in my face is what I need to snap back to reality and gain perspective on things.

 

You have enlightened us and I for one appreciate all of your contributions to the forum.

 

Leigh

 

 

Leigh,

 

There are MANY wonderful people on this forum. There are so many who have helped me in so many ways. I would never have learned as much in such a short amount of time without many forum members (you included). I learn something new every day. I just think when we close our eyes then we close our minds. I think sometimes we lose sight of the greater picture which is the history. The military items will come and go but the history will always be there.

 

...Kat

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I actually see it both ways. Firstly, the reason that I collect is that I have a profound love of military history. As such, I enjoy collecting it, and owning my little piece of our national (and global heritage). I read about the history that surrounds the pieces that I have in the collection, which makes our past all the more tangible. So YES, I definitely enjoy reading the historical references on this forum.

 

HOWEVER, this is a military collector's forum - which centers around the artifacts that shaped our history. In many ways this goes hand in hand with the history itself, but not necessarily. This forum serves as a great resource for not only making friends with similar interests (Lord knows, not everyone thinks like we do), but also as a valuable place to learn about the artifacts themselves. Fakes are prevalent, especially among the high value items - so a lengthy discussion or debate about the authenticity of certain items is not only beneficial, but essential for the growth of our "hobby".

 

Lastly, value is important - but it should not be the DRIVE that causes you to collect. There has to be heart and love behind it.

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Kat - You have opened a great discussion with your thoughtful insights. If we don't look inwards sometimes, we will miss the 'real' stuff. My interest in history has always been primary; the artifacts add another dimension. Thanks......Bobgee

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Patriot,

 

I can see your point. However, I think there has to be a balance between all of the areas. I think sometimes people get bogged down in the minute details and lose sight of the historical aspect. There comes a point when people need to agree to disagree and stop arguing for the last word; no matter how many times you repeat something you cannot make someone change their mind if it's already convinced otherwise. How many times has someone posted that picture of the poor dead horse? :lol:

 

...Kat

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In my personal opinion...

 

There are Military HISTORIANS. They are people who enjoy military history for what it is and what it represents. They study the Greeks and the Trojans and the Soviets...whatever their interest area is. Their investment into their hobby is in time, the cover price of a book, and the admission ticket to a museum.

 

Then...

 

There are Military COLLECTORS. These are people who collect military stuff because they enjoy what it represents and the idea of its use. They enjoy the tangible and tactile representation of the physical object in their hands and in their possession. They collect things from the time period(s) they are interested in and can afford. Their investment into the hobby is money, resources, storage space, and then they live in the museum.

 

It's the difference between a baseball commentator and a baseball card collector. The commentator can talk about the stories of every member of every team, and knows the rule book inside and out. Chances are, the last time he ever bought a baseball card, he was in grade school. The baseball card collector might not even be able to tell you the entire current line up in the MLB, much less the scores from the last three games between this-and-that team. Both people are very active in the same sport...but look at it from entirely different perspectives.

 

Just my two cents...

 

Dave

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Patriot,

 

I can see your point. However, I think there has to be a balance between all of the areas. I think sometimes people get bogged down in the minute details and lose sight of the historical aspect. There comes a point when people need to agree to disagree and stop arguing for the last word; no matter how many times you repeat something you cannot make someone change their mind if it's already convinced otherwise. How many times has someone posted that picture of the poor dead horse? :lol:

 

...Kat

In other words - let's not worry about the number of particles of cork on Johnny's helmet, and more about where it went when it was worn! :lol:

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Just to add to my above...

 

One doesn't necessarily have to like military history to enjoy collecting militaria. The genre of "collectibles" is full of things purchased by people who could care less what the background of the item is. My dad, for example, has collected model trains since he left the Navy in the 50s. When I became more attuned to military research, I asked him about researching the trains...and if determining who the original owner was might change the value of the set. I think he thought I was crazy. In the model train world, whoever was the original owner of a train set is of little to no consequence to the retail value of the set. Likewise, the history of the company similarly holds little influence over the value. What determines value is rarity and desirability - the standard things that determine the market value for the vast majority of collectible items in this world. It just so happens that a minority of military collectors happen to add an extra dimension to that rarity and desirability quotient by including the history of the original owner as a factor. For some potential buyers, this may not interest them sufficiently to warrant the additional value the seller, more attuned to research, may place on the item. Conversely, this added information may make the item more valuable to a narrower or wider field of potential purchasers.

 

All this to say that it is very easy to collect militaria and not be a "military history buff". Some of us are, but I would hesitate to look down on anyone who isn't, as realistically, what interests them in the field may or may not be something I can understand or accept.

 

My third cent...

 

Dave

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strawberry 9

There are probably dozens of reasons why people collect militaria. Some have a love of history, some are interested in military items, some do it to make money, while others love collecting in general. I fall into three of these categories. I have always been interested in history and being able to hold/smell/see an actual piece of history always gives me a thrill. I am also a collector...comics, vinyl records, books, etc. I collect militaria that interests me. Some of it is rare and valuable monetarily while other pieces that I collect aren't "worth" a dollar. I could care less...if I like it I like it. For me, collecting supports my love of history, specifically WWII history. If I weren't interested in that time period I don't know that I would collect militaria.

 

Nobody wants to throw good money away on fake items or overpay for something. I came to this forum for information about collecting militaria and that is mainly what I use it for. I've "met" some great people and the knowlege on here never ceases to amaze me. I appreciate the Military Discussion forum but to be honest, I don't spend a lot of time there. I generally have a least three books at a time I am reading, watch every documentary I can find and converse with friends about history over a beer pretty regularly.

 

That being said, I agree with you that sometimes it can be taken so far that all of the fun is sucked out of the hobby. I wonder sometimes how many young collectors are turned off to the hobby after they learn that an item they bought and are so proud of is immediately labeled as "junk" or worthless by some of the more hardcore members. The competitiveness at some of the shows I've gone to has turned me off to even going much anymore. Not to mention some of the prices these days.

 

At the end of the day collecting is something I do for my enjoyment and to feel closer to history. It is something that I do for myself and it is mine. If I come across someone or something that detracts from that then I eliminate them/it from my collecting world. I've joined and left other forums because there was a lack of maturity on them. I really enjoy this forum and have stuck with it. Nothing is perfect but the fact that we are having this discussion now says a lot for the forum and it's members.

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