Dogface72 Posted October 9, 2013 Author #2 Posted October 9, 2013 Sorry first time posting pictures. He served with 65th ID as a replacement toward the end of the war. No capture papers. He explained how he came into contact with them, but wasn't sure exactly when. They will stay in the family.
Timberwolf Posted October 9, 2013 #3 Posted October 9, 2013 Great stuff! 65th Division stuff is hard to find in itself. Awesome that it has a family connection.
doyler Posted October 9, 2013 #4 Posted October 9, 2013 Always nice to have family related items. Very nice and thanks for posting.
ilikemilitaria Posted November 26, 2014 #5 Posted November 26, 2014 great items! thanks for sharing and keep 'em in the family line along with any history if at all possible. dave
automatic Posted November 26, 2014 #6 Posted November 26, 2014 Awesome, thanks for sharing! Like others said, would be great to keep them in the family
Costa Posted November 26, 2014 #7 Posted November 26, 2014 LUGER AND P-38--- NICE PIECES. IF THEY ARE FULLY MATCHED IT MAKES IT EVEN BETTER.
katieony Posted November 26, 2014 #8 Posted November 26, 2014 Quite the haul...thanks for posting! Mike
sundance Posted November 28, 2014 #11 Posted November 28, 2014 Boy he knew what to grab. Very nice. Could you please show us any markings on the backs of the holsters? Thanks.
jetranger407 Posted November 28, 2014 #13 Posted November 28, 2014 Super collection. Thanks for sharing!
Dogface72 Posted November 30, 2014 Author #14 Posted November 30, 2014 No markings on the holsters that I can remember. The bag is marked 1945. It has a rubber liner, you can find them around in the 25 to 45.00 range I believe. I'm sure they were produced well after the war. I had the p-08 and p-38 out this weekend and they functioned flawlessly, the barrels are not perfect, but I have only put 50 or so rounds through them. The only matching numbers pistol is the PP. I don't shoot the PP.
Dogface72 Posted November 30, 2014 Author #15 Posted November 30, 2014 I read somewhere a long time ago that Luftwaffe pilots carried the 1922, and my holster is "rigged" so the 1922 can be fired without removing it from the holster. I was wondering if anyone had any insight on this? Sounds like it could be possible, or one of those exaggerations. I don't know, I guess I could research it more.
Dogface72 Posted November 30, 2014 Author #16 Posted November 30, 2014 .I don't even know what the holster is for the 1922....it doesn't look like 1922 holsters when I google it.
Timberwolf Posted December 5, 2014 #17 Posted December 5, 2014 Looks like a custom holster for the FN 1922.
doyler Posted December 5, 2014 #18 Posted December 5, 2014 Looks like a custom holster for the FN 1922. More than likely GI modified.Very common to see the flaps cut off and trimmed to a closure strap and the body slotted to open up the trigger guard area.Made it easier to draw from the holster.
doyler Posted December 5, 2014 #19 Posted December 5, 2014 No markings on the holsters that I can remember. The bag is marked 1945. It has a rubber liner, you can find them around in the 25 to 45.00 range I believe. I'm sure they were produced well after the war. I had the p-08 and p-38 out this weekend and they functioned flawlessly, the barrels are not perfect, but I have only put 50 or so rounds through them. The only matching numbers pistol is the PP. I don't shoot the PP. Your bag is the lower to the M44/45 PACK SYSTEM. The pistols are a treasure and the matching number thing has gotten out of hand in my opinion.Numbers matching is a collector thing.The vets who brought these home or the soldiers who carried them didnt care if the numbers matched.In all the years I have been intrested in the hobby and all the rifles and pistols I have seen in vets hands not one ever stated or said to me "look at the numbers..they match". Last year a local vet brought in a couple pistols to a show here to have appraised for insurance.I walked around with him as I have known him since I was 10 years old.The vultures descended on him and asked if "the numbers matched".He had the strangest look on his face and didnt understand what everyone saw in a few little numbers.I told him its a dealer/collector thing.Just like cars I explained.If your selling a car and the dealer looks at the miles they are "high miles" and your car isn't worth much in trade.Then the dealer gets it and now its with more as its "all highway or low miles for its age".He just smiled quietly and didnt say a word. When these dealers found out the guns weren't for sale they weren't to willing to help him or explain that the numbers matching thing meant they charge more, not necessarily paid more.Same with the mum on Japanese rifles.To much emphasis is placed on a little flower.I enjoy and collect items for what they are.If it his is how it came back its what it is.We cant change it and why should it matter.Matching numbers is a collector thing.Some will pay more but having non matching numbers doest diminish its history to me.So it becomes money more than history?
Dogface72 Posted December 6, 2014 Author #20 Posted December 6, 2014 Doyler- I totally agree with the matching numbers thing. It's nice to have matching numbers but that just means it was not used. From a collector stand point matching numbers adds value. I have really enjoyed buying the occasional rifle from a local pawn shop. The few I have purchase appear to be vet bring backs in poor shape, but the dirtier they are the better.....just means less people have screwed with them. I guess if I cared I could flip them for a few hundred a piece...instead I just clean them, fire them once and put them away. I do this for three reasons. #1 preserve the history, #2 I do enjoy the cleaning and identifying production dates, arsenals, production numbers/revisions etc. and # 3 it's really a decent investment should you need to liquidate them for cash at some point. One of the few win/win's I've come across (except my wife) in life. These are family heirlooms.....I'm hoping my boys will appreciate them more than me after many talks, museums, books...and time well spent.
hard stripe Posted December 7, 2014 #21 Posted December 7, 2014 Absolutely awesome, never let them leave the family. ( unless you want to give them to me)
raylemere Posted December 7, 2014 #22 Posted December 7, 2014 great bring backs and cool you got them from a family member! -ray
RJT-V Posted February 1, 2015 #23 Posted February 1, 2015 He brought back some nice pistols! Congrats!
Dogface72 Posted February 7, 2015 Author #24 Posted February 7, 2015 Well, he has some interesting stories..I recorded some and typed up some for my boys. But he was very reluctant. It was late in the war, a lot of young (everywhere) Brooklyn kids were getting killed. In a few neighborhoods there where some questions as to why? I know, sounds crazy but those questions came up back then too. My great uncle was German heritage. Spoke German. One positive story he relayed. One day in mid May 45, (after hostilities were officially announced), he (my great uncle) and three other GI's crossed an anonymous bridge into a town. (an I did press him on this, but he just said there where a lot of towns), "we didn't know where we were for the most part", and "I did not have a lot of contact with the civilians until the surrender". He said something to the effect that, don't count them out. So he implied there was always a fear of a counter offensive around the corner. At any rate, they were in this town post May 9, 1945. Some soldiers wanted to go loot, most wanted to go home. In is words, "We rounded a corner, and there was 10 to 12 German soldiers newly equipped". He thought it was bad situation as the 4 of them walked up to these guys. As they literally came face to face in the street Geo (George my great uncle asked) in German "What is your unit, and what are your ages?" He could not recall the unit, but he could never forget the answer. They replied 15, 16, 17, years of age. Geo was not very comfortable with the situation so they parted ways and made their way back to the lines. I asked him, "could you disarm them?" He kind of chuckled and said, "hey, well the look in their eye said no" and "we were in no position or want for a fight" ....I'm glad he spoke German and used common sense. He also mentioned witnessing atrocities by American soldier against German POW's, but we all know that happened on both sides. It's hard to look in his face when he tells his recollections. Even though he saw no major sustained combat, still in his mid 80's has a tightness when he talks about it. As catch-22 as it is I press him on it. In some regards I do think I have to. Not for me, but to pass it on to my boys (maybe this is my justification?). I'm sure we have all said it before, when they are gone, that's kind of it. So I walked the line. I pushed a little... not to make him uncomfortable, but to the point where I was uncomfortable. I think there is a lot to be learned in that space. I rather ask now, than regret not asking. Again it's catch-22.
blitzkrieg gsd Posted February 7, 2015 #25 Posted February 7, 2015 Dogface you are rite it's a catch 22 but you should ask now because you will regret it if you don't when it's to late. Same thing happened to me with my grandfather he lost his twin brother on d day so it was tuff on my family. I knew how hard that was for him even as a young boy. So I never ask a lot of questions about the war only listened to the story's he would share. Now I wish I would have ask all kinds but it's to late.
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