Jump to content

ARVN Ranger Advisor 1965


Recommended Posts

  • Replies 245
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Posted Images

The following photo has been published dozens of times, including the back cover of Shelby Stanton's US Army Uniforms of the Vietnam War.

 

In addition to the helmet, Cpt. Devlin's uniform is the very definition of a "Christmas Tree Uniform". Before anybody responds to that, I am sure this is what he wore for parade and ceremony purposes, and his field uniform was far less ornate.

 

Also, we have a later uniform of another Ranger Advisor clearly showing his shoulder sleeve insignia and ARVN camo.

 

Hi to all members and readers.

 

Not wanting to be completely out of subject (I stick to the the UNIFORMS discussion), I need help to identify the badge that is used on the right chest, above all others.

 

There are two swords crossed over a circle of leafs and a star on top. I believe its still currently used.

 

A friend of mine gave me a metal one but failed to specify what it was and it wouldn´t be appropriated to ask, since he gave me his own, meaning it was important to him and I didn´t meant to be unconsiderated.

 

Whatever it means, its a valuated gift from a friend.

 

But from then on, I try to figure the meaning of it.

 

Tried lots of sites and Army manuals but didn´t find it.

 

Any help is appreciated

 

Thanks and regards to all.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Hi to all members and readers.

 

Not wanting to be completely out of subject (I stick to the the UNIFORMS discussion), I need help to identify the badge that is used on the right chest, above all others.

 

There are two swords crossed over a circle of leafs and a star on top. I believe its still currently used.

 

A friend of mine gave me a metal one but failed to specify what it was and it wouldn´t be appropriated to ask, since he gave me his own, meaning it was important to him and I didn´t meant to be unconsiderated.

 

Whatever it means, its a valuated gift from a friend.

 

But from then on, I try to figure the meaning of it.

 

Tried lots of sites and Army manuals but didn´t find it.

 

Any help is appreciated

 

Thanks and regards to all.

 

That is the ARVN Ranger Badge (BDQ).

donation2008.gifdonation2009.gif
Link to post
Share on other sites
That is the ARVN Ranger Badge (BDQ).

 

Thanks for the reply,

 

Reading my post I noticed that I sounded completely lost.

 

Let me "re-question" it.

 

I received from a friend of mine and he´s not old age, so he would not have been an advisor in training for the ARVN.

 

He´s US ARMY active duty.

 

I thought this badge was only to VIETNAM Rangers...

 

I couldn´t find it in any updated Army manual as an current issue badge.

 

Is this badge still issued ? To all Rangers or to some special unit/course/branch ?

 

Thanks.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The BDQ Badge was only issued by the SVN Government to those assigned to a BDQ unit. All badges had to be issued prior to 1975 (when Saigon fell to the Northern Forces).

 

Your friend had to have served in SVN with a BDQ unit to have a legitimate badge. Many, many of these badges sre available on eBay and other collector sites.

SFMike

 

F Company, 50th Infantry (LRRP)

 

A-361, 3rd Mobile Strike Force (B-36)

Company A, 5th Special Forces Group (ABN)

 

 

 

RIP Steven Collier, 1968

Link to post
Share on other sites
The BDQ Badge was only issued by the SVN Government to those assigned to a BDQ unit. All badges had to be issued prior to 1975 (when Saigon fell to the Northern Forces).

 

Your friend had to have served in SVN with a BDQ unit to have a legitimate badge. Many, many of these badges sre available on eBay and other collector sites.

 

That leads to an imteresting question - what do army dress regs say about the wearing of foreign awards for a govt. that no longer exists? Was the wearing of SVN, Cambodian, Laotian parawings still sanctioned after 1975 when these governments fell?

Link to post
Share on other sites
That leads to an imteresting question - what do army dress regs say about the wearing of foreign awards for a govt. that no longer exists? Was the wearing of SVN, Cambodian, Laotian parawings still sanctioned after 1975 when these governments fell?

 

I know hollywood isn´t all knowing but they use army advisor to their props.

 

As I said before I searched Army manuals. One hint I got was from the movie "The Siege", 1998 (in my country the name translated something like "New York under siege").

 

It´s a more or less recent movie and featured Bruce Willys as an army general, along with Tony Shalhoub and Denzel Washington.

 

Since The movie is located on "present days" (around 1998-2000) and Bruce Willys is not playing a OLD age caracter, if he had been with the ARVN he should be around 45 years old on the movie if on 1975 he was an advisor and had 20 years of age...

 

He wore this badge on the right chest. (pic bellow)

 

That´s the reason why I got lead to think it´s still issued.

 

First I thought it was the ARMY COMBAT BADGE or an Australian army badge, but the colors and size of some elements were different.

 

Bellow a pic of the movie showing the badge. Not a good one but the movie shows it all the time...

 

post-5724-1236612009.jpg

 

More than questioning IF the Army allows foreign insignias, the movie plot lead to a very bad view of the role of the ARVN advisor.

 

He conducts the siege and some procedures in such an abusive way that he gets arrested at the end of the movie.

 

Not wanting to start a "flame war" but they had put that badge for some purpose, not accidentally and I think the Rangers that served along the ARVN deserved a better "picture".

 

Just my two cents, anyway...

Link to post
Share on other sites
I know hollywood isn´t all knowing but they use army advisor to their props.

 

As I said before I searched Army manuals. One hint I got was from the movie "The Siege", 1998 (in my country the name translated something like "New York under siege").

 

It´s a more or less recent movie and featured Bruce Willys as an army general, along with Tony Shalhoub and Denzel Washington.

 

Since The movie is located on "present days" (around 1998-2000) and Bruce Willys is not playing a OLD age caracter, if he had been with the ARVN he should be around 45 years old on the movie if on 1975 he was an advisor and had 20 years of age...

 

He wore this badge on the right chest. (pic bellow)

 

That´s the reason why I got lead to think it´s still issued.

 

First I thought it was the ARMY COMBAT BADGE or an Australian army badge, but the colors and size of some elements were different.

 

Bellow a pic of the movie showing the badge. Not a good one but the movie shows it all the time...

 

post-5724-1236612009.jpg

 

More than questioning IF the Army allows foreign insignias, the movie plot lead to a very bad view of the role of the ARVN advisor.

 

He conducts the siege and some procedures in such an abusive way that he gets arrested at the end of the movie.

 

Not wanting to start a "flame war" but they had put that badge for some purpose, not accidentally and I think the Rangers that served along the ARVN deserved a better "picture".

 

Just my two cents, anyway...

Sometimes movies get things very correct when it comes to the small details such as the placement of insignia and proper wearing of uniforms, sometimes they get things mostly right but with a few glaring errors (subdued 101st Airborne SSI in "Hamburger Hill") and sometimes they are just so wrong it makes your eyes hurt to look at them ("The Incredible Hulk").

 

One thing that always jumps out at me when a dress uniform shows a Vietnam War veteran is how often they show the Vietnamese Presidential Unit Citation being worn. As far as I can tell, the only American unit to have received that award was the Military Assistance Advisory Group, Vietnam and that was in 1954 for assisting in the evacuation after the country was divided into North and South Vietnam. So I noticed that immediately on the picture you posted of Bruce Willis from "The Siege". However, if his character had in fact been an adviser to an ARVN Ranger unit, it is actually very possible that he received the Vietnamese PUC while serving with that unit. In that sense, his badged out uniform may in fact be very authentic. Does anyone know if advisers to ARVN units that received a unit award are authorized to wear that award also?

 

I'm pretty sure that once a foreign award is officially awarded to an American, it is not withdrawn just because the issuing government ceases to exist. If that were the case, no one would have been authorized to wear the Vietnam Campaign Medal after 1975.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi all ,

Well collecting can be very rewarding some times and here is one of those once in a life time finds .

I was attending the SOS show with Vintage Productions and a fellow collector came to me during set up and told me he had a special camouflage uniform for me .

Well I could hardly wait as this guy was the same man I got my Tigerstripe Custom 2nd pattern jungle set from .

So to cut a long story short I was offered a fantastic Invisible ERDL set complete with the matching cap !

The set is named to a Donald G Wells and he served with Advisory Group 162 5th Batalion .

The shirt is the Viet Windproof cut ,but it has been modified by original owner ,by removing the large breast pockets and reducing the size of them .

The gas flap has been removed .

There is a pen pocket located under the left arm pit .

Both jacket and trousers have been taken in for a tighter fit .

The trousers are the exposed button type but as you know are not techinally the correct matching cut for the shirt ,but have been with the set forever as all taloring is the same on both pieces ,as is the wear .

On the shirt is ...

US made Ranger arc .

US made senior jump wings .

Viet made name tape .

Viet jump wings .

Viet made bevo type jump wings .

Viet printed pocket wing .

Viet printed SSI .

It has also come to light that individuals purchsed their own patches for uniforms , the printed being the cheapest !

Thanks to Andrei for help locating info on this guy !

post-2009-1236882081.jpg

donation2009.gifdonation2010.gifdonation2011.gifdonation2012.gifdonation2013.gifdonation2014.gif
donation2015.gifdonation2016.gifdonation2017.gifdonation2018.gifdonation2019.gif





Link to post
Share on other sites

I actually got to see this at the show.

 

Superb pickup.

 

Owen may have noticed me grinding my teeth in the spirit of good natured jealousy.

Of particular interest is the printed ARVN Airborne SSI that is worn on the sleeve.

 

Looking forward to seeing the cap.

 

 

Patrick.

 

 

EDIT: Owen, just found two awards to your guy from 1972....

donation2009.gif
Link to post
Share on other sites

P

I noticed you grinding your teeth .

It reminded me of the scene from Jaws when the guy scraped his nails on the blackboard and said "I can catch your fish"

I am glad you seen it for only a fleeting second , I wanted it to be right and hey presto!

Thanks for the aditional info , it is all welcome

o

donation2009.gifdonation2010.gifdonation2011.gifdonation2012.gifdonation2013.gifdonation2014.gif
donation2015.gifdonation2016.gifdonation2017.gifdonation2018.gifdonation2019.gif





Link to post
Share on other sites
It has also come to light that individuals purchsed their own patches for uniforms , the printed being the cheapest !

Thanks to Andrei for help locating info on this guy !

 

Owen,

 

Great purchase, I can't wait to see more picture :D , have you paid big money for this ?

 

Only one thing makes me a little suspicious is that the shirt is clearly early war, maybe 66-67 with full color jump wing ..., I don't know if printed patch ever existed in this time, and the guy who paid tailor shop to make his shirt fit didn't afford to pay a BEVO patch ? and we all know ARVN airborne troops cared about their apparance and their outfit.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I also got to see this set when Owen bought it, and I can say I saw it in the original collector's collectin back in the early 1980's. I was actually shocked to see it for sale. This is an amazing set.

 

As per ARVN printed patches, these started in the late 1950's and were used all the way up until the end. I know there are some collectors on this forum that only think these printed airbornes were used on kids party shirts / jackets, etc... But I can remember going to rag mills in the mid-1980's and cutting them off of US advisor shirts that were too beat up to save. It would always be the same set-up, printed shoulder patch, printed wing, and printed jump status indicator. This is way before Vietnam opened up to tourists, and before fake printed ARVN patches were a problem. I also have a printed CIDG / Darlac province patch ( Like Gillespie is wearing in the June 1965 National Geographic issue). This is from a vet who was an advisor in the early to mid-1960's.

 

Also, maybe when Owen is done gloating about this set he will show the set of tiger stripes he bought there. It was bantered around here on the site last year, with members saying it was too over priced, and no one would ever buy it etc..That it wasn't as rare as the seller thought it was. Well, being the true hardcore camo collector he is, Owen stepped up to the plate, and laid down some very serious money for the set. All I can say, is if I was feeling financially flush, and upon seeing this tiger stripe uniform in the flesh again, I sure would have manned up for it also. He bought a great set, and is definately one of the rarest tiger patterns there is.

www.vintageproductions.com


"A militaria show is a social event for anti-socials" - A.T. 2008


ASMIC Executive President

donation2007.gifdonation2008.gifdonation2009.gifdonation2010.gifdonation2011.gif

donation2012.gifdonation2013.gifdonation2014.gifdonation2015.gifdonation2016.gif

donation2017.gifdonation2018.gifdonation2019.gifdonation2020.gif

 


Link to post
Share on other sites

Patrick

Thanks for the Award hit , Fantastic .

Bob .

My set is dated 65 and Donald first went In-country 1965, that along with your time-line on printed patches all falls into place for me on this Invisible ERDL Advisor set .

Thanks .

Oh yes , I still have to show the Tiger set , CISO beogam set and Mitchell set that came my way from the SOS

owen

donation2009.gifdonation2010.gifdonation2011.gifdonation2012.gifdonation2013.gifdonation2014.gif
donation2015.gifdonation2016.gifdonation2017.gifdonation2018.gifdonation2019.gif





Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.