subsystem4 Posted October 1, 2013 Share #1 Posted October 1, 2013 Not sure if this is the right are to ask this question but I was wondering what number or percentage of a ships crew were unrated men during WWII? I am just looking for a rough idea. A Brooklyn class light cruiser has about 870 officers and men. How does that roughly break down? Officers, Warrant officers, petty officers and unrated men. BTW Is unrated the right term? I am talking about 1st and second class seamen, firemen, and etc. Enlisted men under petty officer 3rd class. Thanks -jay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack's Son Posted October 2, 2013 Share #2 Posted October 2, 2013 I would like to know too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sigsaye Posted October 2, 2013 Share #3 Posted October 2, 2013 That is another of those "Navy, depends" questions. Each ship was different and numbers changed constantly. Each ship has whats called a "Manning Document". This tells what the manning of each shi SHOULD be by rate. However, Navy policy allows for a billit to be filled by either one up or one down in grade. Thus a PO3 billit could be filled by a S1/c or a PO2, depending on who was available. Sometimes the manning document was ignored all together. For example, a DE the USS Abercrombie was built and crewed in about 6 weeks. The CO was a reserve LCDR. The XO was a Naval Academy LT (he wrote the book). They had 4 other officers, reserve LTJG and ENS (no sea time). They had 4 CPOs, two regulars and two reserves, and 12 POs, split between PO1, 2, and 3, all reserves most no sea time. All the rest of the crew was S2/c whos last names all started with "W". The personnel officer who crewed the ship simply counted off the number of men the ship was allowed to have from a stack of files closest to his desk and sent them to the ship! When the XO confronted the manning officer who was an academy classmate, he was told that there was a war on and there was no one with experience. Train your crew like everybody else. Basically, suck it up, yo go to war with what you have, not what you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack's Son Posted October 2, 2013 Share #4 Posted October 2, 2013 Thanks sig, that helps me understand the subject much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sigsaye Posted October 2, 2013 Share #5 Posted October 2, 2013 Basically, if you want to know what the precentge of non rated men on the USS Brooklyn was in 1943, you would need to find the 1943 manning document for that class of cruiser (might vary between ships of the class depending on what equipment is installed), then bounce it against actual muster lists. Also remember that in WW 2, ships were manned according to Battle stations on board. So, if there were 4 8 inch guns requireing X number of men (mostly nonrates to shove and haul ammunition) per turret, magazine, lower handeling room and upper handeling room, plus 6 5 inch twin mounst requiring X number men (different if the mounts are single), plus stations in engineering, Operations, Damage Control, the ship would be manned to fill those stations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
67Rally Posted October 2, 2013 Share #6 Posted October 2, 2013 I have the entire roster of the CA-44 - the disposition of her crew following her sinking. I can review that and give you the numbers. Sigs is correct, though...mission of the ship dictates the manning. War time compliments greatly differed from pre/post war manning requirements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
67Rally Posted October 2, 2013 Share #7 Posted October 2, 2013 Basically, if you want to know what the precentge of non raed men on the USS Brooklyn was in 1943, you would need to find the 1943 manning document for that class of cruiser (might vary between ships of the class depending on what equipment is installed), then bounce it against actual muster lists. Also remember that in WW 2, ships were manned according to Battle stations on board. So, if there were 4 8 inch guns requireing X number of men (mostly nonrates to shove and haul ammunition) per turret, magazine, lower handeling room and upper handeling room, plus 6 5 inch twin mounst requiering X number men (different if the mounts are single), plus stations in engineering, Operations, Damage Control, the ship would be manned to fill those stations. The manning also changed as technology advanced during the war (advancement of radar, anti-air guns, etc.). New (and temporary) rates were being established as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uplandmod Posted October 2, 2013 Share #8 Posted October 2, 2013 Never even heard of a Manning Document, thanks guys, awesome question and awesome answers! LF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Ragan Posted October 2, 2013 Share #9 Posted October 2, 2013 Never even heard of a Manning Document, thanks guys, awesome question and awesome answers! LF All services have a manning document of some type or another. In the Air Force it was called a "unit manning document", which basically stated how many personnel and of what rank and speciality were required in each unit. A bombardment squadron would have different requirements as to number of personnel and specialties than a maintenance squadron. The same principle applies to Naval crews on ships. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uplandmod Posted October 2, 2013 Share #10 Posted October 2, 2013 Very nice info thanks! This is when not being in the service shows! Lol LF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwb123 Posted October 2, 2013 Share #11 Posted October 2, 2013 The Army equivalent would be a Table of Organization & Equipment, commonly called a TO&E. It was the starting point for building any organization, and ones existed even for provisional (temporary) units. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subsystem4 Posted October 2, 2013 Author Share #12 Posted October 2, 2013 Thanks for all the info guys. I threw out the Brooklyn as a number to start with. I figured there would be a wide range during war time depending on the ship and mission. I'm just looking for a general idea of what the demographics of the enlisted crew was like. I will try to find a few manning documents. -Jay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
29navy Posted October 3, 2013 Share #13 Posted October 3, 2013 I have a list for the USS NORTH CAROLINA. I'll dig around to see if I can find it and scan it in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
29navy Posted October 3, 2013 Share #14 Posted October 3, 2013 Here's the USS NC's listing. Not the cleanest, but you get the idea. 4-1.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garandomatic Posted October 3, 2013 Share #15 Posted October 3, 2013 The USS Samuel B. Roberts was an end-of-alphabet ship as well. Lots of Z's according to the captain. He was pretty slick, though, and was able to arrange some transfers out and etc. to improve the make up of the crew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subsystem4 Posted October 6, 2013 Author Share #16 Posted October 6, 2013 Here's the USS NC's listing. Not the cleanest, but you get the idea. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgtpete Posted November 30, 2013 Share #17 Posted November 30, 2013 Hi, in late 1942, this was the make up of an Atlanta Class cruiser in the pacific war zone. Hope this helps: Officers 36 W/O 2 Chiefs 27 (E-2) 1st Class 50 (E-3) 2nd class 74 (E-4) 3rd Class 101 (E-5) S1c 136 (E-6) S2c 268 (E-7) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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