BriansBricks Posted September 14, 2013 Share #1 Posted September 14, 2013 This belt was thrown in with a recent trade and I'm having trouble identifying it as original or a reproduction. The belt in question is the one on top, compared to another M1923 and M1917. A 1/3 or 1/2 inch difference in the height of each pockets. Slight oxidation on the eyelights, a good sign of age. Another good sign of it being original, a rust stain and a faded US stamp. Some really wacky stitching on the back with very green thread. Other observations were that the belt's material seemed slightly lighter and more pliable. So, what're your opinions on this M1923 belt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig_pickrall Posted September 14, 2013 Share #2 Posted September 14, 2013 Does the belt have the small strap under the flap used to secure the 5 round stripper clips? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BriansBricks Posted September 14, 2013 Author Share #3 Posted September 14, 2013 Does the belt have the small strap under the flap used to secure the 5 round stripper clips? It does not, nor the M1917. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig_pickrall Posted September 14, 2013 Share #4 Posted September 14, 2013 Can you tell if they were cut off? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustyCanteen Posted September 14, 2013 Share #5 Posted September 14, 2013 Another thing to check; are the snaps for the straps installed or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BriansBricks Posted September 14, 2013 Author Share #6 Posted September 14, 2013 They do not have the straps cut off and there is no hardware that would suggest they were ever installed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig_pickrall Posted September 14, 2013 Share #7 Posted September 14, 2013 The belt is most likely a repro if the stripper clip straps aren't there. They did not stop using them until well after WW2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Dirk Posted September 14, 2013 Share #8 Posted September 14, 2013 Could it be a British made belt? The belt looks to have brass buckles but they look to have a slightly different shape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig_pickrall Posted September 14, 2013 Share #9 Posted September 14, 2013 This is a Brit made belt. You can see lots of differences in the construction. The buckle has a sweeping curve to it that the US buckle does not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airborne-Hunter Posted September 15, 2013 Share #10 Posted September 15, 2013 The rivet in the last picture on the adjustable part of the belt is wrong. It looks foreign/modern to me. Additionally I do not like the little linear bars/lines that run around the edge, to me it seems I've only seen that on modern snaps. Best ABN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Al Posted September 15, 2013 Share #11 Posted September 15, 2013 Could it be a Greek cartridge belt that someone gave a phoney US stamp? I think the CMP was selling Greek surplus cartridge belts (might still be). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_hinch Posted September 15, 2013 Share #12 Posted September 15, 2013 I always thought these O.D. belts were original but Korean War - era. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BriansBricks Posted September 15, 2013 Author Share #13 Posted September 15, 2013 Could it be a Greek cartridge belt that someone gave a phoney US stamp? I think the CMP was selling Greek surplus cartridge belts (might still be). I just checked the CMP and I doubt it. The Greek ones don't have the fastener for the 5 round stripper clips and have smaller grommets to hold the wire hangers which line up with what we're seeing in the photos. Aswell as having multiple lines of stitching near the belt clasp and a non-square belt clasp, the belt in question does seem to have the attributes of a Greek copy. The one big thing that makes me question that is the hardware used for adjusting size on the back of the Greek belts is the same as the M1910s and M1917s, though mine is just the same as the M1923. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fixbayonets! Posted September 15, 2013 Share #14 Posted September 15, 2013 The belt is most likely a repro if the stripper clip straps aren't there. They did not stop using them until well after WW2. I believe that some were manufactured without the stripper clip straps as early as 1945. I have one such example, a transitional belt made by Harian & dated 1945. Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glenm Posted September 17, 2013 Share #15 Posted September 17, 2013 These belts are normally fairly shoddy - however, they have been around for years, certainly before anyone known these days started making repros. The lack of top eyelets apart from at both ends of each of the 5 pockets are also telling, as only a very specific type of equipment suspenders could ever fit them. I *think* these might be Italian-made belts for their version of the M1 Rifle. Cheers, Glen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabrejet Posted September 17, 2013 Share #16 Posted September 17, 2013 No Glen...the Italian rifle belts were actually contracted by Gucci and are always beautifully finished! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artu44 Posted September 20, 2013 Share #17 Posted September 20, 2013 Check the buckle. No one US belt has brass webbed female but light alloy. Possibly norwegian, but for sure european. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usmc grunt Posted September 23, 2023 Share #18 Posted September 23, 2023 On 9/15/2013 at 8:00 AM, Fixbayonets! said: I believe that some were manufactured without the stripper clip straps as early as 1945. I have one such example, a transitional belt made by Harian & dated 1945. Rob Rob, I have a US manufactured late WWII M-1923 in OD7 that does not have the stripper clip straps - see attached photos. Since this belt does not have the male fastener that the female snaps on to, it is obvious that they the straps were not cut off. Everything about this belt is identical to the M-1923 with stripper clip straps. While the "US" and manufacturer stamp sre on the belt in the correct locations, the manufacturer stamp is not legible, but, I would bet this is one of the belts made by Harian in 1945. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fixbayonets! Posted September 25, 2023 Share #19 Posted September 25, 2023 USMC Grunt, Difficult to know for sure without legible marking but it could very well be. Here is a quick photo of the Harian 1945 belt I have without the stripper clip straps. Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Posted September 25, 2023 Share #20 Posted September 25, 2023 The fact that it has a brass closure rather than alloy one would point much more strongly to 1950 or 51 manufacture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usmc grunt Posted September 26, 2023 Share #21 Posted September 26, 2023 4 hours ago, Andrew said: The fact that it has a brass closure rather than alloy one would point much more strongly to 1950 or 51 manufacture. My initial thought was that it was a post WWII / Korean War issue but, then, the brass closure was also used during WWII. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Posted September 28, 2023 Share #22 Posted September 28, 2023 If you can look at the stamp through an IR camera it will probably solve the mystery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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