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M1923 Cartridge Belt, original or reproduction?


BriansBricks
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This belt was thrown in with a recent trade and I'm having trouble identifying it as original or a reproduction.

 

The belt in question is the one on top, compared to another M1923 and M1917.

 

udrFwssh.jpg

 

A 1/3 or 1/2 inch difference in the height of each pockets.

 

acBJAyGh.jpg

 

Slight oxidation on the eyelights, a good sign of age.

 

kd7bTTCh.jpg

 

Another good sign of it being original, a rust stain and a faded US stamp.

 

ZpLoJLSh.jpg

 

Some really wacky stitching on the back with very green thread.

 

DHCsuvT.jpg

 

Other observations were that the belt's material seemed slightly lighter and more pliable. So, what're your opinions on this M1923 belt?

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Does the belt have the small strap under the flap used to secure the 5 round stripper clips?

It does not, nor the M1917.

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craig_pickrall

The belt is most likely a repro if the stripper clip straps aren't there. They did not stop using them until well after WW2.

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craig_pickrall

This is a Brit made belt. You can see lots of differences in the construction. The buckle has a sweeping curve to it that the US buckle does not.

 

post-5-0-49997000-1379202961.jpg

post-5-0-59472400-1379202970.jpg

 

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Airborne-Hunter

The rivet in the last picture on the adjustable part of the belt is wrong. It looks foreign/modern to me. Additionally I do not like the little linear bars/lines that run around the edge, to me it seems I've only seen that on modern snaps. Best ABN

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Could it be a Greek cartridge belt that someone gave a phoney US stamp? I think the CMP was selling Greek surplus cartridge belts (might still be).

I just checked the CMP and I doubt it. The Greek ones don't have the fastener for the 5 round stripper clips and have smaller grommets to hold the wire hangers which line up with what we're seeing in the photos. Aswell as having multiple lines of stitching near the belt clasp and a non-square belt clasp, the belt in question does seem to have the attributes of a Greek copy. The one big thing that makes me question that is the hardware used for adjusting size on the back of the Greek belts is the same as the M1910s and M1917s, though mine is just the same as the M1923.

 

GreekBelt6.jpg

 

GreekBelt4.jpg

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The belt is most likely a repro if the stripper clip straps aren't there. They did not stop using them until well after WW2.

I believe that some were manufactured without the stripper clip straps as early as 1945. I have one such example, a transitional belt made by Harian & dated 1945.

 

Rob

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These belts are normally fairly shoddy - however, they have been around for years, certainly before anyone known these days started making repros.

 

The lack of top eyelets apart from at both ends of each of the 5 pockets are also telling, as only a very specific type of equipment suspenders could ever fit them.

 

I *think* these might be Italian-made belts for their version of the M1 Rifle.

 

Cheers,

Glen.

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  • 10 years later...
On 9/15/2013 at 8:00 AM, Fixbayonets! said:

I believe that some were manufactured without the stripper clip straps as early as 1945. I have one such example, a transitional belt made by Harian & dated 1945.

 

Rob

Rob, I have a US manufactured late WWII M-1923 in OD7 that does not have the stripper clip straps - see attached photos. Since this belt does not have the male fastener that the female snaps on to, it is obvious that they the straps were not cut off. Everything about this belt is identical to the M-1923 with stripper clip straps. While the "US" and manufacturer stamp sre on the belt in the correct locations, the manufacturer stamp is not legible, but, I would bet this is one of the belts made by Harian in 1945.

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USMC Grunt,

 

Difficult to know for sure without legible marking but it could very well be.  Here is a quick photo of the Harian 1945 belt I have without the stripper clip straps.

 

Rob

retainer.jpeg

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4 hours ago, Andrew said:

The fact that it has a brass closure rather than alloy one would point much more strongly to 1950 or 51 manufacture.

My initial thought was that it  was a post WWII / Korean War issue but, then, the brass closure was also used during WWII. 

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