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History of the Collar Disk


cutiger83
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Hello again M2K1

 

I wish I could give you more info on the unclassified disk you shared. I was going through my disks and lo and behold I found this example. Didn't even know I had it or that I had it or knew anything at all about it until you posted yours. I still need to do a LOT of organizing on my enlisted BOS side. Will probably sort and store them like I do the officer's devices shown in my thread a few weeks ago.

 

The lacquer is flecking off, but looks far worse in the scan, looks much better in hand.

 

Thanks again for bringing up this unusual variation!

 

Best wishes,

 

Joe

 

post-48324-0-33232800-1379366418.jpg

 

the reverse:

 

post-48324-0-62953300-1379366443.jpg

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I was going through my disks and lo and behold I found this example. Didn't even know I had it or that I had it or knew anything at all about it until you posted yours. I still need to do a LOT of organizing on my enlisted BOS side. Will probably sort and store them like I do the officer's devices shown in my thread a few weeks ago.

 

 

 

Joe,

Very nice example! You really have some rare ones! You need to get to organizing your enlisted ones! :D

 

....Kat

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Great work Kat! My highest compliments!

 

I have a set of domed brass that are actually World War II vintage. They have extra long screw posts, with the later war nut. They are kind of an anomaly, but are definitely original to the named 8th Air Force coat that they are on.

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The lacquer is flecking off, but looks far worse in the scan, looks much better in hand.

 

 

Could you explain what you mean by lacquer on the disk. Is it a kind of clear protective coating that is similar on what is used today on all of the polished brass?

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I was tired of all my disks slipping and sliding around in riker mounts, and always having a few just slightly out of alignment. So have found a very nice way to store and display disks in button cases. The are similar to riker mounts, but have 24-36- 50 or so clear plastic 1" round cases that fit disks perfectly. And a foam cut insert so the small plastic containers are always equally spaced.

 

such as these:

http://sgtriker.com/flock3.htm

 

(note: I am sure there are many sources, but I have bought from this guy with god luck in the past).

 

 

The little plastic containers are filled with a foam insert. This means you have to cut it down for the disk to fit right and not push off the cap. I just take scissors and cut off about 1/3 of the foam inset, and it lets the disk sit pretty well in the container- which is held in place by the over all foam insert.

 

Brass disks look REALLY nice against the black background, and black ones I put in with a white insert. What's pretty cool about it is that if I want to shift them around, the little containers just pop out and you can easily shift them around from place to place, or case to case. So if I add a new regt disk I can shift all the rest down a place and add the new one in numerical order.

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Jgawne, I am glad you shared this info. I've seen pics of it and sent a couple of pm's to the poster, but never got a reply. I've been using foam board with holes cut into it, and believe me that wasn't an easy task. So these hold WWI collar disks without any issue? If so I know I'll be buying a couple.

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OK, here is my contribution that I mentioned above. Here are the brass, as they appear on the uniform.

post-2801-0-32747700-1379382802.jpg

 

The attribution of the collar brass and jacket - served during World War II as an aircraft mechanic in the 8th Air Force.

post-2801-0-00772400-1379382845.jpg

 

Closeup of the brass - it has been on there forever.

post-2801-0-22140900-1379382975.jpg

 

More detail...

post-2801-0-95750400-1379383037.jpg

 

Final shot of the backs....

post-2801-0-85278400-1379383120.jpg

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Final shot of the backs....

 

 

Great collar disks. I believe they are a type IIIA because it looks like the retaining nut can be removed from the back. Is this correct? It is interesting that it looks like one of them had the original retaining nut replaced with a normal retaining nut for a screw.

 

Thanks so much for adding your pictures!

 

....Kat

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Hi Kat,

 

Yes, the retaining nut can be removed, and the entire piece is multipiece construction. This is definitely dome shaped, so would it still be classified as Type IIIA?

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Could you explain what you mean by lacquer on the disk. Is it a kind of clear protective coating that is similar on what is used today on all of the polished brass?

 

Yes, it's a protective coating that I've seen used on a variety of metal insignia as far back as (at least) WW II. I used the term "lacquer" for want of a better term since I have no idea what they used back then. After many years it becomes brittle and flakes off, often resulting in an uneven tone to the brass or base metal due to irregular oxidation.

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This one has me puzzled.

 

I also have a "US" disc with the same reverse hardware, although the obverse details are a much older style.

P9140088_disc_zpsf40452dc.jpg

 

I'd also be interested in knowing more about what this represents. Came with a group of insignia to a NJ national guard WW2-Korea vet, but seems like an older post WWI style.

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Yes, the retaining nut can be removed, and the entire piece is multipiece construction. This is definitely dome shaped, so would it still be classified as Type IIIA?

 

 

 

Correct. I believe this would be classified as a Type IIIA.

 

...Kat

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This one has me puzzled.

 

I also have a "US" disc with the same reverse hardware, although the obverse details are a much older style.

 

 

I found a picture in the book "The Collar Disk" of a similar NJ disk but with a D. The one is the book is listed as being a New Jersey disk but doesn't say what the D represents. I believe yours is for C company.

 

Can you show the US disk? Does it have NG on it for National Guard?

 

...Kat

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I found a picture in the book "The Collar Disk" of a similar NJ disk but with a D. The one is the book is listed as being a New Jersey disk but doesn't say what the D represents. I believe yours is for C company.

 

Can you show the US disk? Does it have NG on it for National Guard?

 

...Kat

 

The "US" disc I have didn't come with this group, unfortunately. I bought it in a lot of other mostly "US" discs and other insignia at auction. No national Army, no National Guard on it.

 

 

Until I found this one, I always thought the tiny "rasp" hardware on the reverse was rather suspicious.

 

 

I'll put up pictures of the other one when I get home.

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Does anyone have any of the plastic collar disks in their collection? I tried to buy these a week ago but got outbid. I didn't know what there were worth so I only bid a few bucks on them. Here are a couple of pics I took from the listing and even the nut looks to be plastic. I assume they are from the WWII era and the seller listed them as econo-plastic disks. Is that the correct term for them and what would a pair go for?

Posted Image

Posted Image

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More pictures:

P9180092_zpsae7cbcd9.jpg

 

P9180093_zps6caeb2a5.jpg

 

Hello!

 

I found your NJ "C" disk on page 157, figure 9-200 of Emerson's Encyclopedia of United States Army Insignia and Uniforms. It states: Between 1935 and 1940, New Jersey had a battalion of black troops as part of the New Jersey Guard. Each company, the battalion headquarters, and a band had collar insignia of this type.

 

I hope this helps!

 

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Does anyone have any of the plastic collar disks in their collection? I assume they are from the WWII era and the seller listed them as econo-plastic disks. Is that the correct term for them and what would a pair go for?

 

 

I don't have one in my collection. Nor do I know how much they are worth. However, I did find this on page 282 of the Scipio book "The Collar Disk":

 

"During World War II, again the availability of metal became curcial and alternatives to metal use for insignia was examined. The use of plastic substitutes for collar disks was thought to be one way to reduce the demand for metal. Known examples of these experimental insignia are cited in Plate 51. It should be emphasized that these, too, were not accepted because of their fragility and were never issued nor worn."

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  • 2 weeks later...

Kat,

 

I have another example to share on your post. Earlier you had posted a similar type of collar disk with the US. This one is a Field Artillery example.

 

What appears to be a nice domed silver field artillery enlisted collar disk is not what it really appears to be.

 

By all appearances, it looks to be regulation size and design. I don't think any senior NCO conducting an all ranks dress inspection would realize that this Collar disk also can be used to hold a picture of a loved one.

 

This is a locket type collar disk. Not sure how common these were, but I have had this in my sweetheart jewelry collection for several years now.

 

post-5554-0-00073000-1380395495.jpg

 

post-5554-0-47921900-1380395506.jpg

 

post-5554-0-65687300-1380395522.jpg

 

Here is the inside of the locket where a picture could be placed. I noticed that in the previous thread the US collar Disk locket has similar spot weld areas for the pins.

 

 

post-5554-0-69123800-1380395633.jpg

 

post-5554-0-16800500-1380395659.jpg

 

Leigh

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That's a cool disc Leigh. I've never seen an example of the domed disk being used. I have seen the Type I a few times and most of those that I've seen uses a swivel instead of a hinge like your example. I'll try to find a pic to share.

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Kat,

 

I have another example to share on your post. Earlier you had posted a similar type of collar disk with the US. This one is a Field Artillery example.

 

 

 

 

Smitty,

 

Thank you so much for adding your example. I have never seen one for a particular branch. Very nice!

 

 

....Kat

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First of all...thanks a lot for this great thread!!...I only have one question...

 

Type IIIB Flat clutch back (3-piece) 1943-?

Type IIIB Flat clutch back (2-piece) 1946-present

 

Here are a few examples of the Type IIIB clutch back:

 

 

attachicon.gifType3 front.JPG

 

What is the difference between these two "Type IIIB"?...I mean...there are two sub-types (the 3 pieces and the 2 pieces)...the examples of the pictures what kind of "type IIIB" are???

Thanks!

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  • 2 weeks later...

First of all...thanks a lot for this great thread!!...I only have one question...

 

 

What is the difference between these two "Type IIIB"?...I mean...there are two sub-types (the 3 pieces and the 2 pieces)...the examples of the pictures what kind of "type IIIB" are???

Thanks!

 

Hello!

 

I saw your question and think I can easily clarify the primary difference between Type IIIA and IIIB.

 

You are correct, there are sub-types that are of 3-piece and 2-piece construction for both Types IIIA & IIIB.

 

Type IIIA are screwback

 

Type IIIB are clutchback

 

If anyone has additional info other than this it would be most welcome!

 

Best wishes,

 

Joe

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