My USN 7 Helmet

[Welshman]

Hi

 

Heres photos of my USN 7 helmet, its been on going now for about a month, the first stencil, arc/rainbow, I used from a stencil I bought, the USN 7, I had made for me, the helmet, another cheap one, it has a fibre liner, I sew on the repro helmet chin straps. marks out of ten .

 

Welshman.

 

 

[Welshman]

Photos

[Welshman]

Photos

[Welshman]

Photo

[Welshman]

Come on guys, on a rating, 1 to 10, I can take it .

[Sabrejet]

Ok...on that scale I'd award it 4. I see where you're coming from and you've taken great care to reproduce the markings as accurately as possible. However, IMHO what lets it down is the overall corked finish. I know myself from personal experience how difficult it is to re-paint and authentically re-cork a helmet shell without the cork looking as if it's been sprinkled over the top like vermicelli over a dessert....if you know what I mean? Also, if you're reproducing a WW2 helmet it's really desirable to create some sort of "distressing" so it doesn't look too new and fresh. Please take these criticisms constructively and in the spirit in which they're meant.

[Welshman]

Ok...on that scale I'd award it 4. I see where you're coming from and you've taken great care to reproduce the markings as accurately as possible. However, IMHO what lets it down is the overall corked finish. I know myself from personal experience how difficult it is to re-paint and authentically re-cork a helmet shell without the cork looking as if it's been sprinkled over the top like vermicelli over a dessert....if you know what I mean? Also, if you're reproducing a WW2 helmet it's really desirable to create some sort of "distressing" so it doesn't look too new and fresh. Please take these criticisms constructively and in the spirit in which they're meant.

Hi Sabrejet

 

Hope you enjoyed your Holl's, I can see what you mean by distressing/aging the helmet, it looks to new, if I was going to wear it, I would have a go at doing it, but like my other para helmet, its going to be put on display with my cloth patch collection, which I need another two to complete, and are on their way to me, from a dealer in America.

 

Your right about the cork, it was my first attempt, I think I should have used more cork, or if I do another one, try painting the cork on, then heating the helmet up, from the inside of the helmet, and see if the cork will melt, you were a bit mean with the 4

 

Welshman

[Sabrejet]

I just tried it once. I bought a painting kit on eBay off a British guy who specializes in repro helmets and stencils...you probably know of him...he trades as Fallschirmjaeger. It was the correct type of OD paint with a separate pack of finely powdered cork together with detailed instructions on how best to do it (which included baking it in the oven!) It was much more difficult than it sounded. Trying to get the cork to blend in with the paint rather than "floating" on the surface was damnably hard...as you well know! Try as I may, I couldn't get that authentic look. It was passable, but didn't really satisfy me. I ended up selling it on eBay!

[Welshman]

I know the guy you mean, I bought the Army Amphibious stencil from him, which I used the arc/rainbow from, he as a web-site, when I tried to buy paint off him, he said, he was not dealing in paint anymore, something to with royal mail, I bought mine from another guy, in his instructions he say, to go over helmet after painting with wire wool, to take off sheen. Apart from the two patches I’m waiting for, I have on order a medic pouch for the para helmet, and the helmet scrim burlap, I think I need one more item to finish my little display, a American water bottle.

[Sabrejet]

Welshman...have you ever been to Jacob's Antiques Market in Cardiff city centre? There's a permanent and very well-stocked militaria shop in there run by a guy named Sean Lacey. Also a few other militaria dealers who have stalls there Thursday > Saturday. If you haven't been there yet, I recommend you do so!

[jgawne]

I can tell you that there is a subtle error in the marking that would immediately tell me its not right. And no I am not giving it away as this is fine for reenactment use, and I don't want the damn fakers to improve any more.

[Welshman]

Welshman...have you ever been to Jacob's Antiques Market in Cardiff city centre? There's a permanent and very well-stocked militaria shop in there run by a guy named Sean Lacey. Also a few other militaria dealers who have stalls there Thursday > Saturday. If you haven't been there yet, I recommend you do so!

Next time I'm in Cardiff, I will go to Jacob's Antiques, thank you.

[Welshman]

I can tell you that there is a subtle error in the marking that would immediately tell me its not right. And no I am not giving it away as this is fine for reenactment use, and I don't want the damn fakers to improve any more.

Hi jgawne

 

I know that the USN 7 was painted on to the helmet before the grey was painted around the rim, to show it was Navy, and not Army, which would have covered some of the 7.

 

Welshman

[T-Bone]

I can tell you that there is a subtle error in the marking that would immediately tell me its not right. And no I am not giving it away as this is fine for reenactment use, and I don't want the damn fakers to improve any more.

Or is Johnnie just playing with you????

 

Seriously, go buy his books! They have to be some of the best photographic references out there.

 

I had the honour to meet MR. Gawne at my first eventback in 1994(!) and learned more in 30 minutes of

annoying him, than in several years of research.

 

Thanks John, are you going to any events these days?

 

Timo

[cavscout6b]

The "corking" is a fine art & not easily replicated. One thing to consider: MODEL TRAINS. Ground cork is used in that hobby as landscape materials, in a variety of finely ground sizes. Any decent train shop or supplier should have it. Mixes and applies quite well, if you paint the OD finish with a brush.

 

If you want honesty though; you might want to tone down the gray.

 

Overall though; not a bad attempt.

[Welshman]

The "corking" is a fine art & not easily replicated. One thing to consider: MODEL TRAINS. Ground cork is used in that hobby as landscape materials, in a variety of finely ground sizes. Any decent train shop or supplier should have it. Mixes and applies quite well, if you paint the OD finish with a brush.

 

If you want honesty though; you might want to tone down the gray.

 

Overall though; not a bad attempt.

Thank you cavscout6b, never thought of Model Train Ground Cork, will have a look, next time I'm near a Model Train Shop. As for the grey, I know it looks to shinny, the guy I bought the paint from, said in his instructions, after painting go over it with wire wool, which I have not done.

[cavscout6b]

Its not really the "shiny" part; its the shade. The beloved "battleship gray" is a medium gray, with a tint of blue. Monitors/screens do vary, but it just looks too light, in my useless opinion. I'm on a mobile device, so the cut & paste of pretty pictures is impossible. I can however, give a link to a paint supplier example.

http://www.art-paints.com/Paints/Tattoo/National/Homogenized/Battleship-Grey/Battleship-Grey.gif

 

See if you can tell a difference.

[cavscout6b]

Here is a photo of the USS New Jersey, taken by the museum staff in 2001. It had a fresh coat of NAVSPEC naval gray. You can gauge it from there.

 

http://www.bb62museum.org/images/DRWells/Aft1.jpg

[BOLO]

it would have looked more authentic if you used a paint brush and skipped the re-corking, when the navy re-painted the helmets they didnt bother re-corking them they just sanded them or painted over the old finish, a smoother finish would look more authentic

[cavscout6b]

Honestly gents, I seem to be missing something here. I am NOT an expert, but I'm still not understanding some of the instructions given to you guys. Mix, bake, wire brush & garnish with a wedge of lime? (Call me a fool, but I don't ever recall reading about GI's putting a helmet in an oven.) I have refurbished a few helmets & never had to do anything that involved. The OD base coat should be the easiest part of the project. Nothing against that guy, but if you have to get that involved for a "correct" finish, I would be looking at alternative paints.

There are a few governing priciples I use on my projects:

- Painting was often done with inadequate supplies, under imperfect conditions, by people with limited skill. (Keep to the basics.)

- Originals weren't perfect; so MINE doesn't have to be.

- If I have to special order it, or drive more than 20 miles to get it, it probably shouldn't be used on my helmet.

[Sabrejet]

Honestly gents, I seem to be missing something here. I am NOT an expert, but I'm still not understanding some of the instructions given to you guys. Mix, bake, wire brush & garnish with a wedge of lime? (Call me a fool, but I don't ever recall reading about GI's putting a helmet in an oven.) I have refurbished a few helmets & never had to do anything that involved. The OD base coat should be the easiest part of the project. Nothing against that guy, but if you have to get that involved for a "correct" finish, I would be looking at alternative paints.

There are a few governing priciples I use on my projects:

- Painting was often done with inadequate supplies, under imperfect conditions, by people with limited skill. (Keep to the basics.)

- Originals weren't perfect; so MINE doesn't have to be.

- If I have to special order it, or drive more than 20 miles to get it, it probably shouldn't be used on my helmet.

 

That was what the pro I referred to recommended as the final part of the painting process...ie to bake/harden the paint finish. Obviously, not for long...maybe ten minutes in a moderate oven (basting as required! ) I prefer my helmets rare.

[Welshman]

Thank you cavscout6b ans BOLO, for your information, at first I know nothing about the grey painted around the rim, I was only doing the USN 7, untill I did a search and found a web-site "www.toppots.net", that was selling one for $390.00 usd, which had the rim painted, tried posting photo of it, but I can't?. I had to decide then what color to use for the rim, I had a tin of Humbrol 127 US Ghost Grey, which I used, it as a blue look about it, and looks a lot better with the naked eye, I also bought a repro helmet chinstrap for it, all together about paid about £27.00, $42.00

[jgawne]

T-Bone did you annoy me? generally the only people that annoy me are:

1. those who ask really stupid question that are easily answered by opening the most basic of books

2. Those that refuse to buy books as "everything they need to know is free on the web"

2.A) those that put my stuff on the web for free.

3. Those that have no idea who I am and try and argue or lecture me on stuff from my books that they have gotten wrong.

oh, and 4. People that fake stuff up, or make up spurious stories in order sell otherwise useless items.

not to mention 5. people who break up photo albums.

6. People who need to just touch a military vehicle to make it run and stay in perfect shape.

and 7. I'm sure there is one, but I'm too annoyed right now to mention it to someone lest they go out of their way to annoy me.

[cavscout6b]

If that's all you have in it ($42), that my friend, is a bargain. Just out of curiosity; what is the going rate for an M1 helmet on that side of the Atlantic?

[Sabrejet]

If that's all you have in it ($42), that my friend, is a bargain. Just out of curiosity; what is the going rate for an M1 helmet on that side of the Atlantic?

 

I can answer that by asking "How long is a piece of string?" It varies considerably depending on the usual factors such as era and condition. For example VN period ones can sell for anything between £30 > £60 ( $45 >$90)...sometimes more! WW2 helmets with liners are usually not too far apart price-wise from equivalent ones in the US. If it has some "original" markings and good provenance, the price will increase accordingly. Of course, there are always those sellers of the "It's old so it must be valuable" mindset who will charge ludicrously high prices! Here's a current example of that kind of over-pricing. The BIN price works out at $195!! It has sewn chinstraps so it might be a late war / KW shell, but other than that, fairly unremarkable.

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/290955297232?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649