Wool Service Breeches, Specs. 1124, 1161, 1263, & 1286

[solcarlus]

Bonjour.

 

Define different types of pants worn by sammy, is not easy. I therefore propose to develop this theme. Untreated model called "Mod.18" unrepresentative of the AEF
This post is based on my observations on parts and iconography that I possess. Therefore, it is interesting that members complete this post with their own observations and experience.

The first models that can be observed on the first troops, have the following characteristics:
- No back pockets.
- Presence of a martingale.
- Presence of 4 metal buttons for wearing suspenders.
- Lack of reinforced knees.

The latter models encountered later in the conflict (? Dates) have the following characteristics:
- Presence of two back pockets.

- No martingale.
- No metal buttons for wearing suspenders.
- Presence of reinforced knees.

The front pockets and coin pocket are similar in both models, as well as metal buttons fly.

The observed patterns, manufacturers are civil companies. The color of the cloth may vary depending on the manufacturer.

Both models (1 Mod * left.)

 

 

Fronts pants (1 Mod Top.):
One can notice the traces of metal buttons 1 model. Note also the replacement (repair?) The close button size "U.S. Army" by a pressure tent button. By cons, we can meet on the first types, instead of the close button size hook.

Differences in the rear part:

 

Reinforcements knees (6 oblique stitching), and the lacing system of the lower leg:

 

 

 

But I have a question. On copies observed the second type has a "contract April 10th 1917" and the first type a "contract April 17, 1917."

 

 

 

Labels. Notice the "spec. 1161 "

Does it relate to the U.S. entry into the war, April 6, 1917? Reasons of economy? Simplification of manufacturing?

Here is a first approach to the study of the pants sammy. To be continued.

 

solcarlus

 

PS: http://aefcollections.forumactif.org/t3712-le-pantalon-du-sammy

 

 

 

 

 

 

 



[Cavdoc83]

I see it as being two different models (as a broad classification). The "1st model" is the 1908 pattern, and the "2nd model" is the 1917 pattern. Your early breeches are a different variant of the 1908 breeches. I've seen a couple of pair of those in the last few years. They are different from the original 1908 pattern in two ways: the lace placket in the legs is placed off to the side as opposed to being in the middle, and the lace placket doesn't have the scalloped edges that the original 1908's had. Perhaps we should call them the "improved" 1908 pattern? I now wonder when they began making them that way. Maybe those are the 1912 pattern. Does anyone have a list of changes from the Quartermaster Corps relating to this period?

 

I assume that by "martingale" you mean the little adjustment belt in the back.

 

I'm not sure that I understand your question about the dates. I assume that the close contract dates indicate that the manufacturers were still using up material pieces that had been cut to the old pattern.

[jgawne]

_{Never call a Doughboy "Sammy." They will rise from the grave and haunt you for that. They considered it a derogatory term.}

 

 

_{Pre-1912 it is kind of a mess and many different minor variations tried out. But after 1912 it get's pretty straightforward. Although there are always private purchase items getting int he way. I'll see if I have the lineage of them that I wrote from the specifications some time ago.}

[solcarlus]

Cavdoc83.

 

Yes, it should find the names of regulatory models.
The earliest are lassage is on the front.
Regarding dates:
- 1st Mod = Contract: 04/17/1917.. (with amendments)
- 2nd Mod = contract: 10.4.1917.. (no changes)
Yes to the martingale.

 

Jgawne.

 

Absolutely, from the 2nd Mod. it is simple, but before...

 

Regarding the term "sammy" is a designation that we find in the French newspapers of the time, the terms "Amex" and "Yankee" were also used. It is clear that these terms do not have the same meaning and else by Atlantic.

 

An earlier model dated 1912, with a production war to see the differences
this copy all the buttons are hidden codpieces:

 

first model is below

 

 

 

 

 

[patches]

 

The YMCA went over the top to pick up the Pennies the Doughboys droped! Hinky Dinky Parley Vous.

 

 

 

Good stuff actually, It,s a good photograhpic guide to the types of Breeches worn.

[solcarlus]

Bonjour.

 

Here is a varainte pants "first Mod." dated "April in December 1917." Features:

- No martingale.
- No back pockets.
- No suspender buttons.
- No reinforcements thighs.

:

 

A model 1908

 

 

Nobody has pictures of pants

sol.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[solcarlus]

Bonjour.

I'm surprised by the lack of participation in this post. We have therefore considered as Cavdoc83 suggests, these are all variations of pants Mod.1908 to arrive at mod.1917.
Solcarlus.

[RustyCanteen]

Hi Solcarlus,

 

There is another member working on a large thread which will cover as many models as we can find info on.

 

RC

[solcarlus]

Hi Rusty.

 

There he would not have to bring WWI collector of documentation.Ou at least point us in the official documentation, or just have an opinion.
At home, we have a hard time understanding this contract system with as much difference fabication.
Regards

sol.

[Dragoon]

Just to add some more trousers and breeches to the post, I have taken some pics of some pairs from my collection.

The first are from the 1908 specification, with belted back, laces are centre with scalloped edges.

 

 

 

[Dragoon]

Here is the label.

[Dragoon]

Next pair 1910 Specification.

Similar as before but laces to the sides, the placket is a slightly different shape than before, these also have reinforced legs, no rear pockets.

[Dragoon]

Going back in time the next are a mounted pair. I believe these to date circa 1902/04. These have reinforced seat, larger belt loops, still with belted back, two rear pockets, laced calves on the sides of the legs. The cut is straighter in the leg than those I have already posted. These have an ink stamped inspectors stamp.

[Dragoon]

Here are another pair of dismounted, I think these would date circa 1900 so I hope I am not taking the topic too far from the initial subject. They are dismounted with ties at the bottom, no laces, no rear pockets but still with belted back and larger belt loops.

[Dragoon]

The last pair for now without going away from the main topic.

1899 Mounted with reinforced seat, straight leg no ties or laces, belt loops and one rear pocket.

 

 

[solcarlus]

Hi dragoon.

 

The second is a Mod pants monté.Beautiful piece.

 

 

We can see that there are MOD.12 pants with reinforced thigh.

Thank you for participating.

 

sol.

 

No problem for the other models even if it did not come on the continent. For my general knowledge.

[Dragoon]

Sol, Thank you!

 

There is not much info out there on trousers and breeches, they seemed to have been ignored slightly in the past. Hopefully by posting a few pairs it might encourage others or discussion, likewise I look forward to the large thread the subject that is being worked on.

If I get a chance I will dig out some more and add them.

 

I should add in the first few posts I used the word "specification" that was wrong and I meant to say "contract" dates.

 

Kurt.

 

 

[solcarlus]

Yes Kurt, expect others

 

sol.

[Mitter2k1]

Please excuse my ignorance, but what in the world is a Martingale?

[solcarlus]

Bonjour Mitter.

 

Please excuse my ignorance, but what in the world is a Martingale?

 

 

 

sol.

[Mitter2k1]

Thank you solcarlus. That is what I had suspected, but I wasn't sure. Thanks for educating me.

Mike M.

 

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