KEEPING GROUPINGS TOGETHER

[Terry K.]

Moderators please move this to correct forum.

 

I saw a nice AAF officers Ike for sale on another forum. The owner stated "I have the group but do not collect or keep uniforms".

 

So I PM'd him and asked, What did you mean by, " I have the group but do not collect or keep uniforms"? Does that mean you have his medals, wings and documents, etc...?

 

Here was his answer,

 

Yes I have several wing sets, ID, photos, patches and personal effects from him.

 

So I PM'd him,

 

It sure would be nice to keep it all together or at least some of it with the uniform

 

His answer,

 

Well that's not happening, but why would you be concerned with it? just a nostalgic feeling? It's still a group just with no uniform.

 

I simply do not have room for uniforms I have over 45+ groupings and only have one uniform. I can't keep them the space needed would be too much. Plus the guy who bought the uniform has the owner information so they may be put back together years down the road.

 

My response,

 

If the uniform is sold it really dosen't matter.

Most of the collecting community like to keep goups, including the uniforms together.

 

His last PM,

 

 

well you keep your stuff together and allow me to make my own decisions

 

 

I want to puke!

 

If I did not have room to collect the complete grouping I would pass on it. There are plenty of groups with no uniforms to go with them as to not need split good ones up. I would like to cry.

Terry

[38Driver]

In the end it comes down to each person's individual choice. If we all went at things the same way we'd all dress the same, eat the same and drive the same kind of car. Never gonna happen.

 

I understand your frustration as my view is saving the history together. But the hard lesson I've learned here is not everyone looks at it that way. So you go about your hobby in your approach and do your best not to let situations like this one drive you crazy

[RedLegGI]

People are people, sometimes we disagree with what they do . It doesn't make me want to puke, but I keep groupings together.

[Garandomatic]

I wouldn't get worked up about it, but it boggles me that people have a rusty car mentality about everything. Part it out, crush what's left. With what we collect, often times (but not always of course) the group is worth more than the pieces WITH its history. That guy is almost as bad as antique pickers that don't think to get the vet's name.

[doinworkinvans]

Always do whatever it takes to keep groupings together in my humble opinion.

[Jack's Son]

Is nice to be able to think that groups can always stay together, but sometimes it just isn't possible. I've saved some groups in the past, and all I got from it was a bunch of pats on the back, and a lot of money wasted. When it came time to pass those groups along, none of the backslappers ponied up any money to buy them, but thet were willing to take a piece of the pie.

[ColdWarRules]

I understand your frustration. When I was collecting Soviet uniforms I found one identified Soviet Navy submariners captains uniform . So I made a suitable offer for it on the Bay. Well the woman wanted way to much money for it and if it wasn't selling she'd give it to a costume store...it about broke my heart. I kept offering a little more money each time but she wanted $1,000 dollars for it...and if it wasn't 1k it was going...and the uniform was sacrificed. A piece of Cold War history is now gone...

 

-Nick

[hawkdriver]

I understand your frustration. When I was collecting Soviet uniforms I found one identified Soviet Navy submariners captains uniform . So I made a suitable offer for it on the Bay. Well the woman wanted way to much money for it and if it wasn't selling she'd give it to a costume store...it about broke my heart. I kept offering a little more money each time but she wanted $1,000 dollars for it...and if it wasn't 1k it was going...and the uniform was sacrificed. A piece of Cold War history is now gone...

 

-Nick

 

Shouldn't have been to hard to find the costume stores in the area and then start the hunt. May have been able to get it for pennies on the dollar. I used to find old helmet liners that way.

[Terry K.]

Always do whatever it takes to keep groupings together in my humble opinion.

 

 

That is my theory.

 

Having said that, I have had many groupings that have multiple pieces of the same item and I did sell those off to help pay for the group.

Terry

[Jeeper704]

Currently there is a very nice grouping to a tank destroyer officer that is being sold in several lots (including helmet, shoulder holster, lots of clothing and a lot of paperwork!).

Nobody gives a dam about that I see ....

And yeah IF I had the cash, I'd try to keep it together.

 

Erwin

[BEAST]

I have bought groups a little at a time. If it is a local collector, I'd buy what they wanted to sell and then keep in touch with them. If it is a dealer on eBay, I watch their auctions and try to keep track of who buys the different parts if I don't win the auction. Give the winner a little time to enjoy their winnings and then contact them. Let them know your interested and if they decide to sell it to let you know.

 

Whatever the case, just remember that every group that we have has been broken up in some fashion since the vet came home. There is always something missing, if we have the uniforms, we don't have the letters the vet sent home. That sort of thing. Enjoy what you are able to get, keep an eye out and money ready!

[JDK]

Always do whatever it takes to keep groupings together in my humble opinion.

 

 

My personal philosophy as well although sometimes when items are being split on eBay, a person can go broke trying to keep items together. It's happened to me a couple times over the years. I have decided that I will only try it now if it's a group I can't live without, and honestly, there just are not many of those around anymore.

 

JD

[bobgee]

We've gone round & round on this subject over the years. Whoever owns the stuff has the right to make their personal choices. I have never heard that the group was sold by the original owner, the vet, with the admonishment that it all has to be kept together, forever. It's buyer's, and sellers choice. If anyone gets so upset you have to "puke" about a broken group, you need to re-examine your interest in the hobby.

Sometimes more is better, sometimes it's not. Preserve what you can find and afford to buy and keep.

My 2-cents. Bobgee

[Bill Scott]

Bob you hit it right on the head when you own something you can do what you want with it.If you offer a group and put a reserve of say 3000.00 on it and it does not sell then split the group and it sells for 5800.00 piece by piece what do you think will happen when the guy gets the next grouping.In a perfect world everything would stay together but as everyone knows this is not a perfect world.Scotty

[Patchcollector]

I'm not a seller,just a hoarder ,but I can see both sides of this issue.

Many sellers also collect,and I believe that most folks want to see groups stay together,but sometimes financial reality intervenes.
Like Scotty said,the sellers in the past had probably offered up some groups as a whole and nobody bit on them,so they broke them down

into more affordable chunks.The Militaria collectible market is a business like any other,and the sellers are trying to make a living at it.
The buyers (at least on eBay)usually still have an opportunity to get the whole group,piece by piece.

[RustyCanteen]

There are some good points already raised by others.

 

The fact is, a lot of people just don't have the room for large groups. As collectors we strive to preserve history, but we shouldn't sacrifice the best interest of the items because we would like to see everything kept together. There are plenty of collectors who just don't have an interest in uniforms and sell them off while retaining other parts of the group, I would rather see that than a collector overextending their resources to preserve what they already have. We've seen a lot of uniforms that were damaged due to poor storage, that's far worse than someone breaking up a grouping.

 

(And I have reunited groupings)

RC

[SEABEEBRIAN]

As a 20+ year collector I have to agree with the seller. With 6,000,000 people in uniform in WW2 there isn't much of a reason to keep uniform groupings together unless there is a historically significant event involved.

 

As an anthropology major with an interest in museum studies I realize that there are good intentions out there but there's no way to keep everything together.

[Patchcollector]

Another thing to keep in mind is that once a Militaria article enters the market,it usually stays there,and will circulate within that specific market as at gets sold and resold.If it is a named group,then collectors will be careful to keep the info with the items,so if a group gets parted out,there is still a chance that it can be brought together again at a later date.Forums like these are helpful in reuniting groupings too.

[Terry K.]

I just think that there is enough grouping sans uniforms to keep collectors busy. Why break up a nice uniform grouping. Also the seller stated he had extra wings and ID's. Why couldn't some be left with the uniform to keep it's integrity? If I don't have room for something I usually don't buy it. Many times I have sold extras, but keep the original intact.

[Longbranch]

The idea that a grouping is worth more as a whole is usually wrong. Generally, the sum of the parts has a much higher monetary value than the grouping as one big lot. I have never purchased/resold a large grouping that I felt the whole would bring more money than parting it out. There are much worse things than one collector being responsible enough to see that he can't properly store the uniform, and wishes to sell it to another collector that can better appreciate it. Besides, that collector may be able to provide copies of documents and pictures of other parts of the grouping to help with provenance.

 

There are lots of other things more worthy of worry.

[R Michael]

Well I am the "guy" that bought it and I can say I am very happy to add this to my collection of "cut down" IKEs. I am going to keep the owner's information with the jacket and the seller is going to pass along any other relvant information as he recieves it. This is much better than just selling it and be damned with any ID or other information. This to me would be a shame.

I see points on both sides of the argument but bottom line anyone can do anything with their own property. We may not like it but that is the way that it is.

My first collecting love is photos, negatives, and slides and I hate to see groups broken up. Whenever I do sell a photo grouping I try it as a whole first. If it doesn't sell I will break it up. The reason behind this is this. There are a few buyers on ebay that will buy photo groupings and turn around and break them up and make a huge profit. Why should I help these buyers make huge profits on what I own? So what is the right answer?

 

Anyway that is my perspective.

 

Mike

[chris3bs]

I plan on keeping groupings together when selling as well. Sometimes it is hard to when including lockers of an individual because of shipping expense to interested buyer.

[BROBS]

I recently purchased a very large grouping, and although there are some items I will not display and frankly are quite cumbersome to store... I will not be breaking off these pieces for individual sale.

 

I promised the person I bought from that I wouldn't split the group and I plan to keep my word.

 

I do feel the individual items separate would probably bring more than the entire group... however with something like this if all you care about is money, buy something else. (IMO)

[Ben@HI]

I like keeping stuff together as well but sometimes its just not feasible. on the collector side you get to do what ever you want with the room you have however as a dealer you don't always have the luxury. there have been times when I want to keep stuff together and against my better judgment I sold the grouping at a HUGE discount just to keep it together. I don't anymore as most of the time when I did this the buyer would just brake it up anyway. I sold a real nice grouping complete with a unit marked helmet and a bunch of named medals in a nice case with all the officers unit patches from the units he was in during WW2. the guy broke the case open and put all the patches in his $5 bin and sold the medals off one at a time. he parted out the helmet! he even cut the straps off the shell to sell on ebay. I do not keep stuff I sell together if I can make more selling them a in smaller groups or a item at a time anymore. they just get ruined by some jack #%@^ after you sell them. at lest selling it a part at a time I know it probably wont get any worse. most folks that pay full retail for a vet matching helmet or a complete uniform wont brake them up. the stuff I really don't want broken up I just keep. if I don't sell it then it wont get destroyed.

[Longbranch]

That has been my experience as well. Selling something as a group for a good bit less than what the total value of the individual parts would bring usually results in the next person breaking the grouping apart. Yes, it is actually counterproductive to severely discount a group when selling for the purpose of keeping it together. This will actually encourage the next buyer to break the grouping up.