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US Govt Returns Saddam Hussein Ceremonial Sword to Iraq


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there are no captured items in polish hands? not one item? Im not going to get on your case because I understand both sides of the story, but as devils advocate, how much of the issue is expressed impartially and how much of it is showing national pride?

 

I am an American living in Canada for a few more months before we go back home. almost every township has a 1812 collection over here, full of items from the war, many of them are named and can easily be considered treasures, whether they were pilfered from NY state, off of cargo ships or surrendered on the battlefields. I live 23 miles from Sacketts Harbor NY, and they would be really easy to return to the other side of the border, and though I go and look at the items you wont hear me complain about it because HOW they got here is just as much a part of the history.

 

I agree that Gasior case study is not easy and complicated from law point of view. Main battle between the lawyers was for definition what does it mean "captured item"? Captured item may come from an enemy, not from ally, and Poland and the USA were the Allies of WWII. All US WWII era handguns in the Polish museums are legally over here -- either legally parachuted during WWII (for Polish Government's money) or legally bought for exhibitions.

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Yes, youre correct, the terms are really broad and a definition study would be helpful. There is also the act of "denying the enemy" where captured items are justified to be kept for fear that it could possibly fall into enemy or partisan hands. This sort of justification is seen more nowadays. so someone could argue that the rifle was taken or "liberated" because it could have fallen back into enemy or sympathizer hands. granted, this is a REALLY broad justification, but an argument someone could make for sure.

 

I don't see the issue in Poland trying to get it back, and I also don't see the issue in Poland compensating him for it, I do see the issue in forcing someone to surrender property for this reason, and find that a dangerous power. Maybe if the collector was approached by the polish government or a museum to purchase the item it would sit a bit differently. maybe he would leave it to the government in his will or some other stipulation, who knows. this goes for many items in collectors hands, and should be viewed a bit differently than saddams sword because there isn't any real ideological tie to the rifle rather than the sword in question.

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Yes, youre correct, the terms are really broad and a definition study would be helpful. There is also the act of "denying the enemy" where captured items are justified to be kept for fear that it could possibly fall into enemy or partisan hands. This sort of justification is seen more nowadays. so someone could argue that the rifle was taken or "liberated" because it could have fallen back into enemy or sympathizer hands. granted, this is a REALLY broad justification, but an argument someone could make for sure.

 

I don't see the issue in Poland trying to get it back, and I also don't see the issue in Poland compensating him for it, I do see the issue in forcing someone to surrender property for this reason, and find that a dangerous power. Maybe if the collector was approached by the polish government or a museum to purchase the item it would sit a bit differently. maybe he would leave it to the government in his will or some other stipulation, who knows. this goes for many items in collectors hands, and should be viewed a bit differently than saddams sword because there isn't any real ideological tie to the rifle rather than the sword in question.

 

:)

 

Hello,

 

Generally speaking -- the Maroszek's rifle is only a small example of a very complicated (but very friendly) US-Polish relations when it comes to the Polish national goods of culture stored in the USA illegally and being an effect of WWII hostilities. We have always been a very friendly and ally countries but... we do not have your national goods of your history and traditions whereas every year special observers of our Government discover in the USA our national goods in the USA stolen during WWII. This is the problem of our relations, fortunately possible to solve according to friendly terms and good manners between our countries.

 

Regards

 

Gregory :)

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I am not sure that some of the items, like this rifle, were taken with malicious intent, as it was not one mans property or a family heirloom or something of that nature. And I am not being disrespectful when I say that I feel if the roles were reversed, and Poland came to liberate Pennsylvania and a few Poles went home with some things, that the sentiment would be all that mutual. Poland does not have the magnitude of historical or cultural items from the US, because it has never been in the position to take them, and if so, I am sure many Polish soldiers would have acted the same way as allied GI's, afterall, a soldier is a soldier in the end.

 

again, not condoning the actions of pilfering, but am playing both sides of the coin here.

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I am not sure that some of the items, like this rifle, were taken with malicious intent, as it was not one mans property or a family heirloom or something of that nature. And I am not being disrespectful when I say that I feel if the roles were reversed, and Poland came to liberate Pennsylvania and a few Poles went home with some things, that the sentiment would be all that mutual. Poland does not have the magnitude of historical or cultural items from the US, because it has never been in the position to take them, and if so, I am sure many Polish soldiers would have acted the same way as allied GI's, afterall, a soldier is a soldier in the end.

 

again, not condoning the actions of pilfering, but am playing both sides of the coin here.

 

You are absolutely right. :) That is why I look at all these situations as a historical cabaret. All the soldiers in the world in every war take various things and... the problems take place the decades later on... :D

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