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1917 Enfield use in the Border War?


BrokenShovelDude
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BrokenShovelDude

I understand that the Model 1917 Enfield was widely used overseas in France during WWI, however I'm curious if they made it to any other fronts of the time. Are there any sources indicating that the .30 Cal. US Model 1917 was used, perhaps at the tail end of the Punitive Expedition in mexico, or during the skirmishes which took place during the Border War, lasting up to 1919?

Thanks.

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I highly doubt it. I would imagine most if not all of the 1917's would have went overseas for the war effort. They were in desperate need for rifles at the time.

 

WWI ended Nov 1918. And I doubt many of the rifles started coming back until mid 1919 or so. I would be really sort of surprised if they were used in the border wars.

 

I guess you maybe argue the ones that were built as WWI ended. Those wouldn't have been shipped over, but you are still talking about late 1918, early 1919. I think I have had some enfields with barrel dates into March or April 1919. I still doubt it would have made it in time. Everything back then moved a lot slower than it does now. Also you would have to retrain, and rearm, everything would have taken too much time in my opinion.

 

Are you trying to research one particular gun that you think might have been used in the border wars? I have the SRS data and I think 1917's are listed. I can't remember if they are for sure or not. But if they are, send me your serial and I will see if it is listed.

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Sgt Saunders

If I miss my guess the British were still making the P-14 in 303 here in 1916. Or at least we didn't have a M-17 off the line yet.

 

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El Bibliotecario

According to Wikipedia the bulk of US troops were withdrawn in Jan 1917. I doubt if any M1917 rifles existed at that date. Also, the troops who went to the border were all RA and NG units who already had rifles and would not have needed equipping. I believe the idea of manufacturing the M1917 rifle was to equip the large numbers of draftees who entered service later that year.

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BrokenShovelDude

Thanks for the feedback fellas, It makes sense that the Enfield came too late to be used. As for the reason why I ask, cplnorton is out of plain curiosity.

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Camp_Kearny

I agree M1917s would not have been used on the Punitive Expedition but M1917s probably did see some service on the US/Mexico Border in late 1917, 1918, and 1919. Until the mid 1920s, the Border Patrol was the US Army and the term Border Patrol was used to describe those US Army units assigned to the Border. In San Diego and Imperial Counties, the 1st Cavalry and 21st Infantry provided troops to patrol the border during WWI. Most of the troops left to patrol the border were regular Army but they could have been re-equipped with M1917s as they were brought up to strength. The 8th and 16th Division (Regular Army) were re-equipped with M1917s so not all regular army troops carried the M1903 and elements of the 16th Division did patrol the border in California. War raised regiments/battalions would probably have been issued with the M1917s such as the support units of the Cavalry Division in El Paso. I recently bid on a photo of US troops during the 1919 Battle of Juarez and I could not make out the rifles, but the machine gun was a M1915 Vickers presumably in 30'06. Along with all of my other odd interests, I find the Mexican Border period after the Punitive Expedition interesting.

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Camp Kearny....great information!

 

I have a period photo postcard somewhere in my house that shows African American troops in Juarez armed with '03's and wearing helmets. I recollect that it was taken in the 1919-1920 timeframe. Now I need to find it!

Kim

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