Garth Thompson Posted July 22, 2013 Share #1 Posted July 22, 2013 I know this is a rare one but $1136.00 and change must be a new record for rating badges. Sold Sunday on ebay 7/21/13 37 bids with 6 bidders Garth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unclegrumpy Posted July 22, 2013 Share #2 Posted July 22, 2013 I forget what Bannerman's was originally selling these for, but it was something like 25 cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zljones Posted July 22, 2013 Share #3 Posted July 22, 2013 I thought it was a record but not sure. That would be my crazy butt that won that auction. When I said I am returning to the hobby I meant it LOL. Wasn't the last time this sold in 2009 on Ebay? I don't think I will pay that much for any other rates I want. Maybe a Gun Captain CPO. I will post a picture in my collection section once I receive it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unclegrumpy Posted July 22, 2013 Share #4 Posted July 22, 2013 It would be interesting to know in the 1890's how many guys held this rate at any given time....I bet it was only a handful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garth Thompson Posted July 22, 2013 Author Share #5 Posted July 22, 2013 I thought it was a record but not sure. That would be my crazy butt that won that auction. When I said I am returning to the hobby I meant it LOL. Wasn't the last time this sold in 2009 on Ebay? I don't think I will pay that much for any other rates I want. Maybe a Gun Captain CPO. I will post a picture in my collection section once I receive it If it makes you happy, That was money well spent. Life is short play hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zljones Posted July 23, 2013 Share #6 Posted July 23, 2013 If it makes you happy, That was money well spent. Life is short play hard. Exactly my rationale, this is more than double my highest I ever paid, but this was key to both my Corpsman CPO collection and needing an example of a 1893-1894 CPO, I killed two birds with one stone, hence, the need to bid high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zljones Posted July 23, 2013 Share #7 Posted July 23, 2013 It would be interesting to know in the 1890's how many guys held this rate at any given time....I bet it was only a handful. That is something I always wonder because these are so rare (and I feel a little comfortable calling this RARE). In 1894 they came out with a new style but I have never seen a true example of a 1894 style example, but I think the chief requirements must have been high for this rating back in the 1890s and not many got it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unclegrumpy Posted July 23, 2013 Share #8 Posted July 23, 2013 That is something I always wonder because these are so rare (and I feel a little comfortable calling this RARE). In 1894 they came out with a new style but I have never seen a true example of a 1894 style example, but I think the chief requirements must have been high for this rating back in the 1890s and not many got it. I have not researched this particular rating, but the rank hierarchy that existed back then was not like today. You did not aways move up in rank and permanently stay there. Some ranks were actually positions, and there were only so many of them in the Navy at a given time. If you transferred, but not into a similar position, you might revert back to your permanent rank or a rank commensurate with your new billet. This was a particular problem with the Warrant ranks, which was not resolved until before WW I. That caused a lot of resentment, because many enlisted men were offered Warrants based on merit. However, when they were transferred, often they went back to their old enlisted rating. This also broke their continuous service time, which typically cost them money, because while they were Warrant Officers they did not accrue time towards their Good Conduct Medals/Bars....which they got paid a few extra dollars a month for. I suspect that this rating was limited in number, but how limited, I am not sure. The Navy was very small in these years, and I would not be surprised to learn there were only plus or minus 25 to 75 men holding it at a given time....and if I had to guess, I would put the number on the lower end....the very lower end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zljones Posted July 23, 2013 Share #9 Posted July 23, 2013 I agree, there probably was not many men in this title at all and they may have kept these until 1898 when the mark changed or at least til 1897 when the 1894 style became the regulation. That may explain the absence of the 1894-1905 style with the leaning crow (or at least I never heard of or seen an existing example). There probably only were about two dozen that wore it and of that low number probably only a fraction survived time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unclegrumpy Posted July 23, 2013 Share #10 Posted July 23, 2013 I agree the survival rate is very low, but not as low as the rates on blue which seem near impossible to find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zljones Posted July 23, 2013 Share #11 Posted July 23, 2013 Oh yea that rating looks even better on blue, and I think it would go even higher in auction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unclegrumpy Posted July 23, 2013 Share #12 Posted July 23, 2013 Oh yea that rating looks even better on blue, and I think it would go even higher in auction. Especially if it has a bullion eagle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zljones Posted July 23, 2013 Share #13 Posted July 23, 2013 Especially if it has a bullion eagle. Does such a thing exist even Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unclegrumpy Posted July 23, 2013 Share #14 Posted July 23, 2013 To be honest I don't know for this particular rate, but others on blue from this period sometimes do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unclegrumpy Posted July 23, 2013 Share #15 Posted July 23, 2013 Not the example I was really looking for, but it will do..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zljones Posted July 23, 2013 Share #16 Posted July 23, 2013 Seen some of the most amazing 19th century bullions in this thread http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/15646-1886-navy-rates/?hl=1886 Especially that School Master 1st class bullion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unclegrumpy Posted July 23, 2013 Share #17 Posted July 23, 2013 Thanks for the link! There are some really neat ones, but also a number of reproductions that probably should be labeled as such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unclegrumpy Posted July 23, 2013 Share #18 Posted July 23, 2013 Especially that School Master 1st class bullion. That was one of the ones I was actually looking for.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zljones Posted July 23, 2013 Share #19 Posted July 23, 2013 That was one of the ones I was actually looking for.... I think if that one was sold in auction it would be another $1,100 auction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unclegrumpy Posted July 23, 2013 Share #20 Posted July 23, 2013 Probably good you get a chance to recover from this one first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zljones Posted July 23, 2013 Share #21 Posted July 23, 2013 Probably good you get a chance to recover from this one first. I am actually hoping that nothing I really want comes up for some months because of this one, recovery is definitely needed. I hate to say I want to see nothing good for awhile but I am now hoping for a draught. But if something rare comes along, I am in trouble again . The beginning of collecting is always the craziest because you need just about everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0bx Posted July 23, 2013 Share #22 Posted July 23, 2013 I thought it was a record but not sure. That would be my crazy butt that won that auction. When I said I am returning to the hobby I meant it LOL. Wasn't the last time this sold in 2009 on Ebay? I don't think I will pay that much for any other rates I want. Maybe a Gun Captain CPO. I will post a picture in my collection section once I receive it Congrats Zack. Beautiful rate and surely the hallmark of your collection, so far. -Fritz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin B. Posted July 23, 2013 Share #23 Posted July 23, 2013 That is something I always wonder because these are so rare (and I feel a little comfortable calling this RARE). In 1894 they came out with a new style but I have never seen a true example of a 1894 style example, but I think the chief requirements must have been high for this rating back in the 1890s and not many got it. I think you're right. Apothecaries were more the fore-runners of the warrant pharmacists than traditional petty officers. They were appointed directly from civilian life and had to be graduates of pharmacy schools. Their pay was $60 a month, compared to $65 for a Chief MAA, $70 for a Chief Machinist and $100+ for a warrant officer. The only other enlisted medical personnel were the non-rated baymen, which were regarded as pretty much unskilled labor. This system was widely seen as inadequate and led to the establishment of the Hospital Corps in 1898. I'd like to get some good numbers on how many Apothecaries were actually enlisted, but I haven't been able to find anything yet. Anyway, it's a great rate to see and a very respectable return to collecting! Justin B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zljones Posted July 23, 2013 Share #24 Posted July 23, 2013 I think you're right. Apothecaries were more the fore-runners of the warrant pharmacists than traditional petty officers. They were appointed directly from civilian life and had to be graduates of pharmacy schools. Their pay was $60 a month, compared to $65 for a Chief MAA, $70 for a Chief Machinist and $100+ for a warrant officer. The only other enlisted medical personnel were the non-rated baymen, which were regarded as pretty much unskilled labor. This system was widely seen as inadequate and led to the establishment of the Hospital Corps in 1898. I'd like to get some good numbers on how many Apothecaries were actually enlisted, but I haven't been able to find anything yet. Anyway, it's a great rate to see and a very respectable return to collecting! Justin B. Thanks for that information, it helps shed more light on why this piece is freakin hard to find, it makes me treasure this piece even more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zljones Posted July 23, 2013 Share #25 Posted July 23, 2013 Congrats Zack. Beautiful rate and surely the hallmark of your collection, so far. -Fritz Yes definatley and the great thing is I killed two birds with one stone here, I got a piece a need for my eventual Corpsman CPO set and I got an example of a 1893 CPO. Now I am probably done with 19th century rates, all I needed was three pieces. Now the toughest challenge is getting all the pilot rates I want Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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