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Fake Uniforms and Hats to Patton, Eaker, Pyle, Stewart, and more.


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Also, I had a look at Gary's sold items and I have mixed feelings about "Clark Gable's uniform" (but who knows, I haven't seen any of the provenance).

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Will Twomey

In Honor of:

USA General John Wickham (1928-)

USAF Colonel Bernie Fisher MOH (1927-2014)

USMC Sergeant Al De Vito (Chosin Reservoir Survivor) (1926-)

USA Cpl. Macedonio Leyba (Bataan Death March survivor) (1917-2007)

 

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I guess if one concludes that the Ernie Pyle stamp is not real then it stands to reason that such stamping is fake on other hats as well. I had not previously considered that Gary sells fake items as his reputation has been strong in the dealer community, but I don't really know what else to say. Years ago I picked up a leather flight jacket from a dealer of aviation memorabilia that had two patches on it from squadrons of the 306th Bomb Group. The jacket had a leather name plate with wings embossed on it. The jacket was not an A2, but rather a private purchase. It came with photos of the officer wearing the coat in WW2. My dad was a vet of the AAC and he questioned how a pilot would have anything other than an A2 official issue coat. Through the 306th BG association I learned that the pilot was still living and they got us in contact with eachother. The officer was a B-17 copilot who flew 23 missions in 1945. We corresponded often before his passing some years ago. A wonderful man who shared many stories of his life in England and on missions over Germany. He was so happy to see pictures of his coat that he had sold so very long ago. He explained the two patches (having transferred from one 306th squadron to another and left both patches on the coat) and he also explained that back in WW2 there were many allowances for officers that did not exist for enlisted men such as my dad. He said he purchased the private leather coat because he found it more comfortable to wear in the cockpit than the A2 and he was never questioned for his private purchase coat or told that he had to wear an A2. Had I not found him and corresponded, I may have encountered people who questioned the non military issue leather flight jacket with two squadron patches on it but I have letters and emails from him that verify the provenance of this coat and the reasons behind it. By the way, his name is stamped into the leather tag. So I end my participation in this topic as I started it. Who can ever know for sure when it comes to so many of these items. I surely didn't mean to stir up a hornets nest, just thought I would weigh in as I had the hat in my hands and could inspect it up close rather than just in a photo. Obviously there are those who strongly feel it is not real and that is fine. As I said already, I got it for a very good price, pretty much what I would expect to pay for a Luxenberg crusher hat so I am not licking any wounds on this purchase. Thanks to all for your passion to this wonderful hobby and for helping to keep the memory of those who gave so much alive.

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That type of first hand documentation on the flight jacket is terrific provenance. That's the kind of history that needs to stay with the item.

I would expect the same to accompany this cap, seeing as General Yeager is still with us and could say whether this cap was his or not (obviously not an option with Eaker's cap). If a seller is unable or unwilling to provide such documentation, I think it is only prudent to question why that is.

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Yeager's hat has convinced me. Someone seems to be out there adding fake names to authentic and high end crusher hats. Although my hat is real, the name may very well be an aftermarket fake or outright fantasy. Fakes are based on the modeling of a real example while fantasies never existed to begin with. I am wondering if there is a way to find out if Luxenberg ever custom branded their hats for a fee with the name of the officer. I also wonder if there is a way of dating the dye or paint used to make the varied and worn looking Eaker on my hat. Based on the evidence, I think the jury would conclude the name a fake, but I am curious if the fakes are based on there being one or two originals out there that were copied in design to add in the names of many other famed officers or if this is just an outright fantasy that has no origin to base it on. I would think that a high ranking officer may have spent the money to have his name scripted rather than just using an ink pen to write his name in his hat.

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I'm in law enforcement and have spent my fair share of time in court. Here's the facts as I see them; Very few authentic officer's caps have been seen by collectors with names stamped on the sweatbands until very recently. The ones that have appeared are all highly recognizable names (George Patton, Ira Eaker, Chuck Yeager, Ernie Pyle) and the prices on them are 10-20 times more than a comparable un-named cap. As far as I can determine, no solid provenance/origin for these caps has been established. Half of the caps discussed can be found on one website. I don't know the dealer, never dealt with him, but I'll allow the community to form their own judgement.

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Just a quick question: Would Chuck Yeager really have his nickname put it the hat? Shouldn't it be Charles Yeager or something like that?

Will Twomey

In Honor of:

USA General John Wickham (1928-)

USAF Colonel Bernie Fisher MOH (1927-2014)

USMC Sergeant Al De Vito (Chosin Reservoir Survivor) (1926-)

USA Cpl. Macedonio Leyba (Bataan Death March survivor) (1917-2007)

 

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Very few authentic officer's caps have been seen by collectors with names stamped on the sweatbands until very recently.

 

 

I would change 'very few authentic caps" to "no authentic caps."

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. Someone seems to be out there adding fake names to authentic and high end crusher hats.

 

In the case of Ernie's cap, they're not even using a "high end" cap. In the photo, he appears to be wearing what is actually a "crusher" - chocolate-colored wool gaberdine material.

The cap offered for sale is a common standard WW2 era US Army officer's cap (lighter brown wool felt).

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Im with you guys on it being very very suspicious but let me ask this...didnt pilots and AAF guys have embossed leather name tapes sometimes on their leather A2s and other jackets?....couldnt this be done at the local tailors?...i still think these famous ones are most likely bogus but i would think it could have been an option to get it done but surely most guys wouldnt pay to get it done?....mike

Always looking for and buying 50's era 11th Airborne/ 187th ARCT/ 82nd Airborne tac mark painted jump helmets!



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Im with you guys on it being very very suspicious but let me ask this...didnt pilots and AAF guys have embossed leather name tapes sometimes on their leather A2s and other jackets?....couldnt this be done at the local tailors?...i still think these famous ones are most likely bogus but i would think it could have been an option to get it done but surely most guys wouldnt pay to get it done?....mike

 

I believe you are correct about the name badges. I wonder why we've not seen legit crusher caps with the same sort of embossing from lower ranking individuals.

T.S. Akers, MA

Always looking for US Army and Air Force General Officer uniforms and hats.
http://gouniforms.blogspot.com/

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Im with you guys on it being very very suspicious but let me ask this...didnt pilots and AAF guys have embossed leather name tapes sometimes on their leather A2s and other jackets?....couldnt this be done at the local tailors?...i still think these famous ones are most likely bogus but i would think it could have been an option to get it done but surely most guys wouldnt pay to get it done?....mike

 

I'm sure that out of the thousands of AAF caps worn in WW2, at least one guy had his name embossed on the sweatband. So, this type of naming does not automatically make a cap "fake." But, when it comes to these caps with famous names (and no supporting provenance), I highly doubt they are legit.

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I would change 'very few authentic caps" to "no authentic caps."

 

I was trying to give the benefit of the doubt because there may be one out there I haven't seen yet! Yes, leather name tags were stamped and if anyone can show a "authentic-beyond-a-doubt-with-solid-proof" visor cap named in the same fashion, I'd like to see it.

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While I have not owned or handled the number of uniforms and caps as some here, I have been actively collecting named uniforms for something like twenty years, additionally I have an interest in researching the manufactures and tailors, and I can positively say I have never seen stamping such as shown in this thread on either a surviving cap or being offered in any period sales literature.

 

With items such as this I would want to see verifiable supporting documentation which provides cast-iron provenance before I'd consider buying. That said genuinely historic items do show up on such as eBay, but they are few and far between. I recently bought an Ike jacket which is named to a member of the 8th Air Force who was involved in some very historic missions, though his name is not well known.

Collecting WWII and pre-war Air Corps items-Unit Histories,Uniforms,Medals and Groupings.

*Seeking Pre-WWII Air Corps Officers and Enlisted Dress Uniform items!*

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It would seem to me, that if an expensive cap was to be personalized by the tailor, it would done with initials. Initials on a garment tend to be more "classy" than a full name. I see this often with WW2 era tailor-made quality coats.

But, lacking provenance, a cap with embossed initials "I.C.E" would be much more difficult to sell to a collector than one with "I.C. Eaker." So, I can understand why the full name is embossed on the sweatband.

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Starting to feel more and more like P.T. Barnum is the applicable inscription for this hat after all. I try to be so careful when buying and really gave the inscription a close look, all the time believing that matching the lettering to the Ernie Pyle lettering style was proof of authenticity for this one. Never thought there was a bushel of hats out there with similar stamping. I think I got duped real good on this one. What is it that Barnum said? A sucker born every minute? Or was he the one who said that if it seems too good to be true it probably is? Only paid slightly more than what an unnamed Luxenberg crusher sells for so I am not really out a boatload of cash but it is the principle that galls me. I have the seller's business card and he goes to most of the militaria shows in Springfield so I am debating calling him to demand a refund or demand the name of the museum that allegedly bought the other two Eaker hats so I could contact them directly to see if the story checks out. Not counting on either of these panning out but at least I have pulled the hat off the market so he cannot sell it for far more to some other unsuspecting collector.

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Starting to feel more and more like P.T. Barnum is the applicable inscription for this hat after all. I try to be so careful when buying and really gave the inscription a close look, all the time believing that matching the lettering to the Ernie Pyle lettering style was proof of authenticity for this one. Never thought there was a bushel of hats out there with similar stamping. I think I got duped real good on this one. What is it that Barnum said? A sucker born every minute? Or was he the one who said that if it seems too good to be true it probably is? Only paid slightly more than what an unnamed Luxenberg crusher sells for so I am not really out a boatload of cash but it is the principle that galls me. I have the seller's business card and he goes to most of the militaria shows in Springfield so I am debating calling him to demand a refund or demand the name of the museum that allegedly bought the other two Eaker hats so I could contact them directly to see if the story checks out. Not counting on either of these panning out but at least I have pulled the hat off the market so he cannot sell it for far more to some other unsuspecting collector.

 

You should certainly try to get a refund. However, the problem is the dealer will probably want some sort of "proof" that it is indeed fake. A bunch of opinions on the forum doesn't usually cut it with some dealers.

Over the years, I have purchased my share of fakes. I chalk it up to experience and move on. I always figure I'll find some really good deals that far more than make up for an occasion mis-step. Aside from the bogus naming, at least you have a nice original Lux cap.

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I'm reminded of another recent thread where a helmet was recently accepted by most of the poeple posting as what it was supposed to be, with no backing or provenance as well for something which could easily have been done by anyone else.

I guess it's a matter of how much you paid, where the cutoff will come where people here will likely cry foul?

Lee Bishop Formerly known as "Ratchet 5" with the 2nd Infantry Division (yes, in REAL life)

US WW2 War Correspondent collector

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Here is a cap I own that came in a small group to a Troop Carrier pilot.Along with the cap came his uniform,B4 bag(named),and officers short overcoat.

The cap is a nice Luxemburg model.Im just guessing he had it embossed at the time of purchase.THese are a gold color and not heavily stamped.Have owned this small group arounf 30 years

 

Not saying that any of the above are correct or authentic but there were embossed caps

 

Officers name was S J CHARLES

 

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In Memoriam:
Lieutenant J.Kostelec 1-3 First Special Service Force MIA/PD 4 March 1944 Italy
I HAVE SEEN THE ENEMY AND IT IS DAYLIGHT
Forget about the tips..We'll get hell to pay (AC/DC)
"If you cant get out and run with the big dogs then sit on the porch and bark at the cars going by.."

Have you Hugged a Clown Today?

You Cant Get A Sun Tan On The Moon..





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Thank you so very much for posting this! Not saying that my Eaker hat is real or not, but did notice that the "A" absolutely matches the "A" in the Eaker hat with the wider right leg and a foot extending off the bottom of the "A" to the right. That brings me to my original question that has just been answered. No doubt in my mind that someone out there of less than honest intent is adding in stamped names of famous high ranking officers to original WW2 hats to try to make a buck. He may even be using an original stamping kit he found that is of the correct font to examples such as your authentic Lux cap's initials, But at least for me, it has put back some level of belief that I was not a total fool when I inspected the initials for Eaker up close and personal with a strong magnifier. I still see honest wear and age when I look at it, letters that have the paint faded unevenly, flecks of varied shades. Again, please don't everyone jump down my throat for living on Fantasy Island, not saying it is the real deal, just saying that at least one of the twelve jurors might want to have another look before sending the party off to the gallows.

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I saw that myself. Hopefully it's provenance is better than a few recent things I've seen discussed on here.

Looking for the following:

452nd and 447th Bomb Group items

Anything 12th Armored- especially uniforms

155th Assault Helicopter Company, Camp Coryell, or Ban Me Thuot Vietnam items[/center]


WWII US Navy Uniforms from the Battle Off Samar: USS Johnston DD-557, USS Hoel DD-553, USS Samuel B. Roberts DE-413, USS Heermann DD-532, USS Dennis DE-405, USS John C. Butler DE-339, USS Raymond DE-341, USS Fanshaw Bay St. Lo, White Plains, Kalinin Bay, Kitkun Bay and Gambier Bay...


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