A matter of conscience?

[Jack's Son]

But, for example, if a regular contributing Forum Member who always helps other members with patches, because that's all he specialized in, offered up a "Fleet Marine Corps Reserve Medal" at the price of the very similar "Marine Corps Reserve Medal" (you medal guys will understand this), I wouldn't feel right buying it for $50 (verses the true value of $1000).

 

I agree.

[Third Herd]

I can't remember the dollar ammounts but a guy went into an antique shop in town and bought an old saddle blanket. It wasn't cheap but he thought he could turn a profit on it. It ended up being a very rare one and it was sold for BIG bucks. The antique shop sued him saying he should have told them how vaulable it was. The antique shop lost the case.

[Sabrejet]

Thanks to all those of you who've contributed thus far. It was my intention to provoke a discussion and that's what we've got here...a range of opinions articulately expressed. We'll maybe get a few more before the day's out?

[Shenkursk]

I have a real life recent experience with this. I do militaria as a hobby only, and do not need it to make a living. I set up at several shows a year to sell and hang out with other collectors. At a recent OVMS show I had brought an item to sell to another forum member here who specializes in PH's, The item I brought was priced for him, once he looked at it he said no that is not enough and gave me roughly 60% more that what I had asked. This is the first time anyone had ever done this with me to the best of my recollection. I know this is the rare exception to the rule but it did point out to me that there are people out there who are not just motivated by the dollar. I will refrain from using his name but he is a good fellow all the time this deal aside.

 

Irish: I'll bet I know this man - he is a forum member, correct? This is the mark of a No 1 good guy, and clearly this made a great impression on you. Chances are, next time you have a nice PH, you will go directly to him. In that case, not only did he do you a good turn, but his actions are good for his business as well.

 

Sometimes underselling an item is good for business also. A dealer friend who always has a 'feeding frenzy' at his table when he sets up at shows once told me that he always puts out a few items for about half of what they would normally sell for, and prices everything else at reasonable going-rate retail prices. Word spreads about the bargains, and then people tend to assume that EVERYTHING he has is bargain-priced, thus he sells far more than he would otherwise, and more than makes up for selling a few things on the cheap.

 

As far as pricing goes, several here have expressed the idea that there is a difference between making a low offer, and paying somebody's (low) marked price. I agree completely. If someone marks a $500 item at $50, there is no need to pay them more, unless you just feel like you want to, either out of pure altruism, calculated tactics to develop loyalty, or some combination of the two. HOWEVER, I am consistently amazed to see people at shows find that $500 item marked at $50, and then ask the seller if they will take $40 for it.

 

Another bad practice is to rub their face in it. Normally this is done by the guy who just missed the item.. "You're an idiot. I would have paid 10 times that price." First of all - no, they wouldn't - they would have simply bought it at the marked price, and secondly, all they have accomplished is making the seller feel like crap. Better practice is to make a mental note, and be sure to check that guy's stuff asap when you see him posting it for sale, setting up at the show, etc.

[RedLegGI]

OK...here's the hypothetical scenario. A fellow forum-er has trawled the local flea market and subsequently posts his finds "for sale". He's not entirely familiar with some of the items he's found...say for example a particular medal.... and lists it at well below the going rate. You immediately recognize it for what it is and hit the PM button to get first dibs. Do you accept your good fortune and buy it at the knockdown price...or do you point out that it's really worth rather more and offer to pay the higher rate?

As long as the seller is happy with the price they want for it, I have no problem giving them what they want. As much as you know about the item, the seller should conduct due diligence and research it themselves before selling.

[irish]

Irish: I'll bet I know this man - he is a forum member, correct? This is the mark of a No 1 good guy, and clearly this made a great impression on you. Chances are, next time you have a nice PH, you will go directly to him. In that case, not only did he do you a good turn, but his actions are good for his business as well.

 

You are correct, all medals etc will be shown to him first.

[rr01]

Thanks to all those of you who've contributed thus far. It was my intention to provoke a discussion and that's what we've got here...a range of opinions articulately expressed. We'll maybe get a few more before the day's out?

That is almost always your intention ;-}

[Trooper B.A.R]

The way the post was written that someone bought item(s) at a flea market, or lets say garage sale and then post it for sale. Apparently he's selling it for more then he purchased it for, and using his finds to profit. If its underpriced in value, and a buyer sees a value, he's the one that did his research and buying it at a set price, same as the seller that bought it from flea market, or at a garage sale.

Buyers overall set the price, no matter what seller is asking. If it doesn't sell at a set price, you lower it if you still wish to sell. Values are also set by buyers, and how much they are willing to pay for it. Doesn't mean they will get same if the buyer turns around and tries to sell.

I actually see more items for sale, (not here) above what most are willing to pay for same.

[Jack's Son]

You are correct, the buyer sets the selling price. In this thread the question is will the buyer tipoff a seller that his price is too low??

[srossio]

I guess, for me, it depends on the situation. I am almost a 100 percent collector so if I can buy something way under value...it just means that I am able to add a rare item to my collection and have extra money to buy more items.

 

That being said, I have always maintained a personal policy that if I acquire an item from a friend (and I must stress friend) and I sell the item later at a huge amount over what I paid...I will share the wealth with said friend.

One thing that has not been discussed in this thread are individuals who just want the items to go. I have seen this at estate sales, garage sales, etc. (even among collectors who are no longer in the hobby). Sure the item is worth much more than they are selling it for but they just don't care.

Case in point...I watched a re-enactor who was all done with the hobby sell his early World War II jeep (in unrestored, original condition) for $3800.00.
This included misc. field gear and the brand new trailer that he had paid $3000.00 for. He wanted out and out quick. I just wished I could have been there a bit sooner!

Steve

[zotig111]

This is a good discussion. I took a few days to work out the response as it definitely drives an ethics vs. capitalist dilemna.

 

As identified in the original question, this pertains to our "community", not the public at large. As this forum is an educational vs. commercial venture, we owe it to the member to help educate him on his item. I do agree that the seller is responsible for pricing his item correctly but as I mentioned, we are all here to educate and be educated. That's where the ethics debate begins. To remain true to the principles of the forum, one should let the seller know that the item is undervalued and offer a reasonable price.

 

The same logic does apply to the outside world and our own ethics guide us. If you are at that table and see the $50 hawley liner, several factors come into play. Do you know the seller? Have you an established relationship with him? Is the $50 price for you only based on your buying past with that dealer? Is it a kid setting up for the first time? Is it someone who has screwed you over on a deal in the past? The answer of buying or informing hinges on these and many other factors.

 

However,...

We all have been "educated" on items we have bought and sold. I am sure that everyone has has that item that we are still kicking ourselves for selling. That is how the human animal learns. You touch the hot stove, you will get burned. Next time you check to make sure it is off before you touch. If I see a bargain at a commercial endeavor, I would have no problem buying and walking away extremely happy...

[dskjl]

I think you have to let your conscience be your guide. This means something different to everybody in every situation I imagine but that’s part of the human condition.

I have at times shared with sellers that I thought things were worth more and paid appropriately and at other times quietly paid the asking price. I think it is situational, what is the gap in value vs sell price, what am I buying and most often who I'm dealing with and how we are working together to make a deal.

I don't think there is a universally right answer to the question. We all have different takes on right and wrong in given situations. I have made some deals I'm proud of because I got a good deal and everybody walked away happy and I have made some deals I thought were moral victories for me because I help a seller out. I have also made deals that after reflection and council from fellow collectors I am less proud of because I was foolish or because somebody was unhappy with my choices and the final outcome for them.

 

Great question, one I think we all ask ourselves and have to answer for ourselves.

[doyler]

I agree with D.

 

in many cases the value is in what the buyer and seller see.What the buyer thinks is a bargin or priced below market the seller in many cases dont see the value in the same light.THey are intrested in only selling it or in many cases were going to throw it away.I have encounterd the same situations as he described being on both sides of deal.I always try to be fair and I will offer what I feel is a afforable and agreeable price.I have also told people there may be others that may pay more and have sent them to dealer sites only to get a call and say my offer was better.

 

How many times have we as collectors seen something over priced or mis-identified(or both) by a seller or dealer and point it out to the seller just to get treated rudely? Helping out doesnt always get you the appreciation you may want.

As D said no right or wrong. its part of the game of collecting in general.

[tw5270]

I am a small collector. What I mean is I only want a few items based on my families history. I am building a display that reflects my families actions. So most of the time I am buying to re sell to feed my budget.

 

Examples- http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?item=251288177423&ssPageName=STRK%3AMESELX%3AIT&_ssn=tw5270&LH_Complete=1&LH_Sold=1&rt=nc

 

every item there is something I bought at a yard sale.

 

My primary collecting/buying/selling is in a different world. I collect Vinyl Records.

I comb yard sales and often find rare gems. It's a YARD SALE, I pay what they are asking and that is that. They are happy and so am I. Because my picking yard sales often leads to me finding other things I have started to buy more with the sole intent of selling it for a profit. I take some risks but mostly buy what I know is valuable. I did the research, I am taking on the risk of selling, I carry the knowledge of all these items values around in my head.

 

Now with all that being said, if someone on this forum offered me a deal on a record that was undervalued (Yesterday and Today Butcher cover) I would tell them and then haggle for a price I could live with.

 

To me the difference is simple...I want to come back here. A yardsale is a one time event. It's their job to log on and check ebay before they sell it.

[firefighter]

This is an excellent post.I love these 'moral' questions.My feeling is that I really wouldn't want to screw somebody out of a lot of money just as I wouldn't either.BUT if somebody is selling on the forum hat means that have to have at least 50 posts.That should indicate, at least to me, that they know how things work here.If they list an unknown patch for sale, that happens to be a T-Force patch, and asking $50 then they should have asked 'what is this patch?'.I am also thinking before anybody even had a chance to say 'hey you have a really rare patch' that sucker is long gone.

[Salvage Sailor]

CAVU Ian, flying high today

 

Ian Phillips, 1953-2021