Original WW2 Paratrooper Jump Wings?

[pfrost]

Interesting progression and as always, a lovely set of wings. A question? Do you find any post '57 wings NOT hallmarked with the winged R and with just the Robbins spelt out?

 

I find Alan H's finding of the winged R-marked jump wings in the effects of a KIA paratrooper fairly compelling. But I agree that the aviation wings all seem to be post WWII (if not later). Clearly the winged R should be a copyrighted company logo. There must be a way to search the archives to see (and date when at least it was copyrighted).

 

Also, IIRC, by the 60's, the alpha-numeric system had been implemented and Robbins-made jump wings should have been marked with an R21 (but I would agree it isn't always an absolute, especially during the transition).

 

Another potential line of inquiry would be the CAP insignia.

 

Finally, I would add to your United transition with this photo.

[pfrost]

Of course, we have had a similar discussion about this hallmark in the past (nothing is really ever new on the forum!).

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/22753-robbins-company-navigator-wing/

 

Many of the pictures and links are gone, but if you cut and paste, you can chase some of them down.

I remain skeptical (as in the old post), but there may be some precedence for USAAF wings marked with the winged R.

[rustywings]

Of course, we have had a similar discussion about this hallmark in the past (nothing is really ever new on the forum!).

 

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/22753-robbins-company-navigator-wing/

 

Many of the pictures and links are gone, but if you cut and paste, you can chase some of them down.

I remain skeptical (as in the old post), but there may be some precedence for USAAF wings marked with the winged R.

 

 

"Nothing is really ever new on the forum!" Really? I'm taking a chance at offending my friend Allan H by offering a possible verifiable time frame on the use of the hallmark in question, which is broken down into segments as short as three years in some cases...and that's old news? Wow, tough crowd! And by the way, you still owe me money from the last fishing derby!

 

 

[pfrost]

Well, Russ...

 

Strictly speaking, you're breaking the rules by posting non-military, girly-stewardess stuff.....

 

Frankly, I think you're spot on with the dating of the winged R hallmark. The only question I have is if the jump wings fall into that same timeline.

 

And I thought we established you were cheating during the fishing derby, thus all financial gains were nullified.

[B-17Guy]

Great photos of some fabulous airline wings Russ!

I am also in agreement that the Robbins "Flying R" was not used till well after WWII.

 

John

[Allan H.]

"Nothing is really ever new on the forum!" Really? I'm taking a chance at offending my friend Allan H by offering a possible verifiable time frame on the use of the hallmark in question, which is broken down into segments as short as three years in some cases...and that's old news? Wow, tough crowd! And by the way, you still owe me money from the last fishing derby!

 

I would like to make a couple of comments here, though I am not going to comment on whether or not I think Russ is a fishing cheat. I will start by stating that nobody is going to insult me by refuting my statements or offering opinions that are not in line with my own. To do so would be foolish and small minded. I'd like to offer a quick history lesson to collectors here- not that long ago, medal collectors PREFERRED "MNo" numbered medals to the "No" marked examples. The thought was that the "M" stood for the Mint, which meant that the medal was an original issued piece. It was only after some of the medal collecting pioneers like the late, great, Al Gleim, started to do research that the way of thinking was reversed because the "No" marked medals were more likely to be researchable. So, in some cases, it took fifty plus years from the time the medals were issued for us as collectors to learn about them. Today, we have some people whom I hold in rather high esteem who share there time and opinions on the wing forum here. I don't think any one here holds their status as a collector above anyone else's. Even the great J. Duncan Campbell and Don Chalif were always happy to talk wings, and not just to pontificate, but to LEARN from other collectors. Guys like Russ, Cliff, Bob, and Patrick (apologies if I missed anyone) all appear to be cut from the same cloth. I applaud them for it. (This place beats the heck out of certain Nazi collecting sites where one collector's opinion is supreme to all others with his opinion trumping all- another reason to not collect LOSER stuff).

 

I accept and agree that the Winged R hallmark is one that wing collectors rightfully associate with wings of the 1950's, but I also know that in my personal journey to find parachute badges in the hands of veterans and their families, that I have found these Robbins wings with the Winged R logo on the back side. I have also said that the people who should have the answer at Robbins were unable to provide me with any concrete evidence, and the fact that Don Burgett's brother's wing was one of these Winged R pieces, I will still hold to my original assertion that they are a legitimate WWII vintage parachute badge.

 

Great discussion here guys!

 

Allan

[BROBS]

Allan,

about the jump wings do you think it's possible that they could be a set presented to the family for some reason well after the death?

Or just a set purchased by a family member to place with the items?

 

-Brian

[Allan H.]

In the case of Don Burgett's brother's wing and according to Don, the wings were his brother's and when his mom got the Purple Heart, she put them in the case and then never looked at the case again. Don found the cased medal when cleaning out his mother's home when she passed. He was quite adamant abut that.

 

Don is still living and the last time I talked to him he was still sharp as a tack. I am sure that if someone wanted to contact him, he would be more than willing to talk about it. This however is my assumption, not a guarantee.

 

I have found these wings with other WWII veterans and while it is possible that a wing could have been picked up at a later date and affixed to a uniform, etc., I think that I have seen enough uniforms come out of the woodwork to know when a veteran has "dolled up" his soldier suit. It is more common for that sort of thing to happen if the vet was in the VFW or American Legion, but some veterans just wanted to hang their uniforms up and to get on with their lives.

 

I use Don's example as for me, it is the most compelling,.

 

Allan

[skypilot6670]

Great thread thanks to all.Patrick is that a fly on that Stewardess' hat? Mike

[BROBS]

In the case of Don Burgett's brother's wing and according to Don, the wings were his brother's and when his mom got the Purple Heart, she put them in the case and then never looked at the case again. Don found the cased medal when cleaning out his mother's home when she passed. He was quite adamant abut that.

 

Don is still living and the last time I talked to him he was still sharp as a tack. I am sure that if someone wanted to contact him, he would be more than willing to talk about it. This however is my assumption, not a guarantee.

 

I have found these wings with other WWII veterans and while it is possible that a wing could have been picked up at a later date and affixed to a uniform, etc., I think that I have seen enough uniforms come out of the woodwork to know when a veteran has "dolled up" his soldier suit. It is more common for that sort of thing to happen if the vet was in the VFW or American Legion, but some veterans just wanted to hang their uniforms up and to get on with their lives.

 

I use Don's example as for me, it is the most compelling,.

 

Allan

Allan,

didn't mean to imply it had been added, was just curious if you had explored the possibility but it seems you have!

Seems odd that the maker's marks would differ between types of wings, but maybe one or the other type were made at a different location??

Maybe one location updated their maker's mark before the other?

 

-Brian

[rustywings]

Allan,

 

Thank you for your shared knowledge and highly valued insight. We're lucky to have your participation and contributions on this Forum!