Springfield 1903 question

[Tony641]

I'm looking at buying a Springfield 1903 and need some advice as what to look for.

One in particular I'm looking at has a serial number which makes it a 1917 year build. There is a 6-44(month might be wrong) mark on the barrel along with I believe a HR and a bomb.

There is a AAL rebuild Mark on the stock as well as a P.

 

Its the nicest condition one I have seen as far as the receiver, barrel and stock. I did not look to see if the numbers match.

 

If I can get some pictures I'll post them. What markings should I be looking for and what would a decent price be. I know the matching serial numbers have a big play in that , but some ball park figures would be really appreciated.

 

Thank you in advance.

[yp221]

It all depends what you're looking for: a "shooter", where correctness of parts isn't a matter of importance, or a collectible one where the parts are correct to when the rifle was manufactured. In my opinion, don't pay more than $500 to $600 for a shooter with non-correct parts. A note about 03 rifles you plan to shoot, check the underside of the barrel where it meets the front of the receiver, if there is a weld, or signs of a weld being ground off and cleaned up, it is likely a demilitarized rifle for drill purposes. If that is the case, the integrity of the metal may have been compromised and may not be safe to shoot (lots of debate about this point though). Another thing is the serial number. If the rifle is an Springfield Armory serial under 800,000 or Rock Island Arsenal under 250,000; the receiver is considered to be defective (i think they weren't properly heat treated). These are also considered to be unsafe (another point of contention among collectors and shooters). You'll also want to know the muzzle wear and throat erosion. This will tell you how much life is left in the barrel.

 

This doesn't sound like a collector type rifle as you said the serial number is from 1917 and the barrel is from 1944. Obviously, it would've originally had a 1917 dated barrel when manufactured, so it has been through at least one rebuild. You also may want to ask the seller if the rifle has any import markings. These are usually stamped or engraved on the barrel or receiver, this usually hurts the collector's value and resale, but when present, can be used to your advantage in negotiation price. Pics are always helpful, I'm sure someone with more knowledge of the 03's can chime in and help you out.

[101CH47]

The US military did not number the various parts with the serial number.

 

I did not look to see if the numbers match.

[damcon3]

The problem with low number rifles is they were heat treated by color and not temperature. Therefore some were good and some were to brittle. If the rifle was rebar relied for WW2 then they are generally considered safe to shoot. It is the rifles that come out of the woodwork with original early date barrels that are questionable.

[101CH47]

Some in depth information regarding the receivers. I am probably going to regret opening this can of worms.

 

http://m1903.com/03rcvrfail/

[Mike D]

The problem with low number rifles is they were heat treated by color and not temperature. Therefore some were good and some were to brittle. If the rifle was rebar relied for WW2 then they are generally considered safe to shoot. It is the rifles that come out of the woodwork with original early date barrels that are questionable.

 

 

 

No disrespect, but I disagree with that. Low number guns are considered to be unsafe to shoot, period. That's why they are not allowed on the firing lines.

 

The cutoff numbers are 800,000 for SA and 285,507 for RIA.

 

A rebuilt LN rifle is neither valued as a shooter or collector. But there are exceptions, like USMC rifles and pre-WWI rebuilds.

 

If your shopping for your first '03, buy a high number, for sure. One with a nice finger-groove stock is a plus. A C-stock (pistol-grip) is also a plus if you shoot a lot. There are plenty out there with excellent bores. Also be aware of milled metal bands, trigger guards and buttplates vs. the later stamped steel versions used on the M1903A3. Nothing wrong with an A3, either.

 

A nice '03 can be had for between $700-800, even less, depending on the type of parts and stock.

 

Mike

[Tony641]

Thanks for all the info. If I end up pulling the trigger ill post some pictures.

[cplnorton]

I have been collecting 03's for 20 years or more. I've had as many low numbers as high numbers and have shot both a lot.

 

It is a can of worms when you discuss this topic as everyone has an opinion. If it were me and I didn't shoot it that much, I wouldn't worry about the low number receiver.

 

The Marines used the low number receiver well past when the Army discontinued using them. In fact the Marines never paid much attention to it at all. And other than drilling the hatcher hole on the side of the receiver during rebuild, they never did anything else and used them until the early parts of WWII.

 

If you can get the one above reasonable, get it. But I wouldn't put more than $500 or so in it. It would be very hard to resell as it has a low number receiver and a late WWII barrel. There isn't much collector interest in it.

[101CH47]

I will side with CPLNorton on this one.

Most of what is repeated about this subject is more folklore than anything else. Read the report in the link I posted, it will greatly add to your education on the subject.

 

 

I have been collecting 03's for 20 years or more. I've had as many low numbers as high numbers and have shot both a lot.

 

It is a can of worms when you discuss this topic as everyone has an opinion. If it were me and I didn't shoot it that much, I wouldn't worry about the low number receiver.

 

The Marines used the low number receiver well past when the Army discontinued using them. In fact the Marines never paid much attention to it at all. And other than drilling the hatcher hole on the side of the receiver during rebuild, they never did anything else and used them until the early parts of WWII.

 

If you can get the one above reasonable, get it. But I wouldn't put more than $500 or so in it. It would be very hard to resell as it has a low number receiver and a late WWII barrel. There isn't much collector interest in it.

[VMI88]

The problem with low number rifles is they were heat treated by color and not temperature. Therefore some were good and some were to brittle. If the rifle was rebar relied for WW2 then they are generally considered safe to shoot. It is the rifles that come out of the woodwork with original early date barrels that are questionable.

It's not the barrel that's the problem; it's the receiver. Changing the barrel does nothing to make the rifle safer. Granted, the risk of a failed receiver is low but it does happen.

[Sgt Saunders]

I always wondered if the US government knew this was a fact and they were all dangerous and could not be fired, why did they rebuild low number guns and reissue them. Then knowingly after WWII, lend leased them to the Greece? If you can explain that fact to me then, I will believe they are all dangerous. Another Urban Legend....... So much for keeping that can closed.

Now that being said, I'll give my advice here for the original question.

I read a little story years ago about gun collecting. The author advice was, chose the gun you most want to buy. Go out and buy some books on the gun you want. Read the books cover to cover until you think you have a basic knowledge of the gun in question. Go to a gun show because you will find more examples of the gun you want under one roof. You can put your greasy mitts on them and just ogle all you want. You may find after a while you know more that the people who are selling them. ( no disrespect to gun dealers) I find many times I am better armed with knowledge studying first. You need to Read! Read! Read! Go buy a Book! Find a buddy that has a book. Get a book and study. Knowledge is power. I shudder to think what I have invested in my book collection. But all it takes in one book and a little time reading it and it will pay for it's self in spades. I've recouped the cost of a book on my first purchase. As far as price, surf the internet. Gun Broker turns over 03's, and don't forget auction houses. Search there sights. You will get a feeling after a while what the market bears, what is out there and what is a deal or a dud. And the most important to remember is, if you miss the one you really want, sooner or later another one just a little better comes your way.There my 2c, and one final thing, did I mention read?

 

[VMI88]

I always wondered if the US government knew this was a fact and they were all dangerous and could not be fired, why did they rebuild low number guns and reissue them. Then knowingly after WWII, lend leased them to the Greece? If you can explain that fact to me then, I will believe they are all dangerous. Another Urban Legend....... So much for keeping that can closed.

 

They're not all dangerous. In fact, relatively few of them are dangerous. The problem is it's impossible to tell in advance which ones may potentially fail under normal use. The failures are documented and very real. Will a specific rifle fail if you take it to the range? Probably not, but the risk is there.

[doyler]

 

 

A nice '03 can be had for between $700-800, even less, depending on the type of parts and stock.

 

Mike

 

 

Yep

 

Just scored an 03A3 for $389 all in at the area ez-pawn.Probably an old CMP rifle that came out of the closet.

[Sgt Saunders]

 

 

Yep

 

Just scored an 03A3 for $389 all in at the area ez-pawn.Probably an old CMP rifle that came out of the closet.

Some people have all the luck.......

[cplnorton]

Around where I live in Ohio a low number can be had for around $400. I saw one yesterday at a show for $450. I almost picked it up to part it out. The parts were worth more than the asking price.