Bob Hudson Posted June 29, 2013 Share #1 Posted June 29, 2013 Got this cheap today but I have no about whether it's real. Any thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firefighter Posted June 30, 2013 Share #2 Posted June 30, 2013 Not an expert on these MC aviation units but not digging the black edge.But what do I know.Could be a rare Aussie made patch, which I hope it is.Plus the 'MAG-25' looks like MAC-25. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Hudson Posted June 30, 2013 Author Share #3 Posted June 30, 2013 Not an expert on these MC aviation units but not digging the black edge.But what do I know.Could be a rare Aussie made patch, which I hope it is.Plus the 'MAG-25' looks like MAC-25. The black border is the only part I'm kind of certain about. Here's an example (a variation without "MAG 25" stitched on it) from another thread on the forum: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Signor Posted June 30, 2013 Share #4 Posted June 30, 2013 Seeing the one on the jacket , I would tend towards it being genuine. Johnny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobgee Posted June 30, 2013 Share #5 Posted June 30, 2013 The black border is the only part I'm kind of certain about. Here's an example (a variation without "MAG 25" stitched on it) from another thread on the forum: Wow! I used to own this jacket many years ago. Owned by a Navy Flight Surgeon with MAG-25. Semper Fi.....Bobgee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Hudson Posted June 30, 2013 Author Share #6 Posted June 30, 2013 Wow! I used to own this jacket many years ago. Owned by a Navy Flight Surgeon with MAG-25. Semper Fi.....Bobgee Is that your photo? It's in an older thread about rare USMC aviation patches Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Hudson Posted June 30, 2013 Author Share #7 Posted June 30, 2013 A question about low-production embroidered patches: I know that today you can have a computer-controlled machine produce one identical patch after another, but how would something like, say, the patches produced in Australia in WWII have been done? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobgee Posted June 30, 2013 Share #8 Posted June 30, 2013 Is that your photo? It's in an older thread about rare USMC aviation patches Think so.....not sure. Bobgee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firefighter Posted July 1, 2013 Share #9 Posted July 1, 2013 That 'MAC 25' still bothers me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Hudson Posted July 4, 2013 Author Share #10 Posted July 4, 2013 I scanned the patch and it shows the thread detail better: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Hudson Posted July 4, 2013 Author Share #11 Posted July 4, 2013 Here's one that sold for a lot of money on ebay in 2008, so the buyer was convinced it's real: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Signor Posted July 4, 2013 Share #12 Posted July 4, 2013 It was probably hard for the person that made the patch to get the "G" cross bar in there without it looking like a "6" , so I think it's still an original , they weren't real stringent on details back in the day as long as it was "close" it worked for them .............................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Signor Posted July 4, 2013 Share #13 Posted July 4, 2013 Here's one that sold for a lot of money on ebay in 2008, so the buyer was convinced it's real: 6.jpg This one also looks like it has "MAC" so that's what I was saying about the patch , also it has remnants of the outer black border...................... And we have to remember each one was done pretty much by hand/foot powered sewing machines in some places and I'm sure that most if not all if set side by side had variences you could see if you took the time to compare them , it's not like the computer pumped out ones now days .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Hudson Posted July 4, 2013 Author Share #14 Posted July 4, 2013 This one also looks like it has "MAC" so that's what I was saying about the patch , also it has remnants of the outer black border...................... And we have to remember each one was done pretty much by hand/foot powered sewing machines in some places and I'm sure that most if not all if set side by side had variences you could see if you took the time to compare them , it's not like the computer pumped out ones now days .... I assume they looked at a master design and used their skilled hands to re-create it. I've watched the computer-controlled embroidery machines and it's hard to grasp the image of person doing that, one item after another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Hudson Posted July 4, 2013 Author Share #15 Posted July 4, 2013 I was told that a reproduction was done sometime in the last 20 years or so and there is repro version currently offered online. Here's the current fake offering: This one is on a website about the history of MAG 25. It is very similar to the current repro (but not identical) but not at all like the known originals which have some "texture" in the clouds and wings and what looks like a ladder next to the red cross instead of the single line seen in these repros: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Signor Posted July 4, 2013 Share #16 Posted July 4, 2013 The repros are way too obvious so I don't think those would ever pass for the real deal ......................................... And the ones you first posted are the heavy sewn types that are the norm for their era .................................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firefighter Posted July 5, 2013 Share #17 Posted July 5, 2013 According to the book 'USMC AVIATION UNIT INSIGNIA 1941-1946' The MAG-25 patch pictured has the same MAC 25' in it's cloud.According to the book it's Australian made on wool.It was designed by Walt Disney Studios.The motto means 'Safety in the Clouds'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Scott Posted July 5, 2013 Share #18 Posted July 5, 2013 With out holding the piecein hand it looks like the standard heavy embroidered Aussie made WW2 Squadron insignia.I think you got a bargain.Scotty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpstout Posted November 24, 2013 Share #19 Posted November 24, 2013 Bob, I just came across this post after your re-org. This is an original fully embroidered USMC patch made in Australia. But, here is the deal. MAG-25 had 2 PATCHES: 1). a large patch that was ~ 5 7/8 x 5 1/8 inches and made as a chest patch with the "MAG-25" and "SECURITE' EN NUAGES" in yellow. 2). A second sleeve patch also exists, Australian made, USUALLY WITHOUT the MAG-25 stitching. It is 4 1/2 x 4 1/4 inches. The patch base is black wool on both, so the border is classic in this design. The lettering on yours is classic Aussie. Is yours the smaller version, Bob? I included a scan of the 2 together for comparison. Also, I am the current owner of the jacket shown and that is a photo I put in the USMC posts a while back. I have never seen another sleeve patch actually on a jacket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpstout Posted November 24, 2013 Share #20 Posted November 24, 2013 Bob, I just came across this post after your re-org. This is an original fully embroidered USMC patch made in Australia. But, here is the deal. MAG-25 had 2 PATCHES: 1). a large patch that was ~ 5 7/8 x 5 1/8 inches and made as a chest patch with the "MAG-25" and "SECURITE' EN NUAGES" in yellow. 2). A second sleeve patch also exists, Australian made, USUALLY WITHOUT the MAG-25 stitching. It is 4 1/2 x 4 1/4 inches. The patch base is black wool on both, so the border is classic in this design. The lettering on yours is classic Aussie. Is yours the smaller version, Bob? I included a scan of the 2 together for comparison. Also, I am the current owner of the jacket shown and that is a photo I put in the USMC posts a while back. I have never seen another sleeve patch actually on a jacket. I actually should have referred to the 2nd one as a "shoulder" patch. It is late. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpstout Posted November 25, 2013 Share #21 Posted November 25, 2013 Regarding repop's, here is a MAG-25 patch that is 2.5 x 2 inches. It is reportedly a reunion patch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpstout Posted November 25, 2013 Share #22 Posted November 25, 2013 A question about low-production embroidered patches: I know that today you can have a computer-controlled machine produce one identical patch after another, but how would something like, say, the patches produced in Australia in WWII have been done? The squadron pattern was transferred to the base patch material (wool) via tracing paper by a serrated tracing wheel or a dressmakers pencil. The resulting chalk outline guided the seamster and provided a relatively consistent pattern and with minor variations evident over the patch lot as you might expect. While there is a general consistency in the materials used for each patch run, the composition of the material used usually differs from squadron to squadron. If you look at the reverse (backing) of the small and large MAG-25 patches, the contrast in thread colors and composition is marked and one would assume that the 2 patches were separate runs. Even today, the original "tracings" can be discerned on the Australian made patches. Here is a photo of a pristine VMF-122 patch with tracings present (see arrows). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpstout Posted November 25, 2013 Share #23 Posted November 25, 2013 Here is a pristine VMF-121 Aussie patch. Notice the "V M F" in chalk. The other original VMF-121 patch I know of has the "V M F" lettering only and hence, we have taken that as the gospel. But here, for whatever reason?, they ended up stitching "VMF 121" while it is very clear that it was originally marked for "VMF". A variation at least. Or did the remainder of the patches end up as VMF 121? Who knows? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpstout Posted November 25, 2013 Share #24 Posted November 25, 2013 Check out the ears and the residual chalk marks (arrows)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpstout Posted November 25, 2013 Share #25 Posted November 25, 2013 VMF 112 Aussie made, blue version...residual chalk in the outline of the wolf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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