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War is horror...

Interesting you say that as my wife could care less about war movies in particular the guts and gore. The other day "Battleground"was on TV. Much to my surprise it caught her attention and she sat down to watch. She couldn't get over how cold, tired,scared and beat up the GIs looked.

 

No over the top gore, just. Very good story telling in what in my mind ranks as one of the best WW2 movies. It didn't need special effects to convey the horror of war.

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Interesting you say that as my wife could care less about war movies in particular the guts and gore. The other day "Battleground"was on TV. Much to my surprise it caught her attention and she sat down to watch. She couldn't get over how cold, tired,scared and beat up the GIs looked.

 

No over the top gore, just. Very good story telling in what in my mind ranks as one of the best WW2 movies. It didn't need special effects to convey the horror of war.

 

I do see both sides of what is said, truly. I suppose I approach it from a generational standpoint. When "Battleground" came out, the wounds were still fresh. Besides the fact that the effects of now weren't possible then, people didn't need a movie to remind them of the gore.

 

Now, with all the brats of my generation who truly couldn't care less about history, much less how their freedom is preserved [i generalize, of course], the gore can be effective to shock them into realizing what goes on. Be it "Fury" or "American Sniper". Just the other day a friend said to me they can't stand history or current news because "it's too scary"...come now :dry:

 

Anything that puts everything as it was [to the closest extent possible] is effective, and deserves attention. Hopefully they get the attention of those curious enough to see it not knowing much at all about it :)

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Battleground is awesome.

 

I've never had a movie "bother" me several days later like Fury did, though. It's true that you don't have to have the gore to tell the story, but the death of a tanker strikes me as the stuff of nightmares, and right or wrong, Fury took it to that level. The real SS probably would have done better, but I still really liked the movie.

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Yeah, I haven't seen any of the director's other movies, maybe he uses the gore in lieu of other techniques. I guess I agree with you somewhat, Viewfinder, on the gore being an effective medium to our generation to convey the terrible realities our ancestors faced that may otherwise be taken for granted. At the same time, I think any high-budget Hollywood movie starring Brad Pitt, Shia LaBeouf, etc. and featuring a couple of explosions and tanks in the trailer would draw the crowds regardless, and the general messages of sacrifice and widespread tragedy would still pervade. "Band of Brothers" was only fifteen years ago so it's still relatively current to our time, and it had nowhere close to the amount of gore in "Fury." I think we can all agree that while it's somewhat a case of apples to oranges, "Band of Brothers" is infinitely superior to "Fury." But again, either way this movie has accomplished what I hope it set out to do, which is to educate the public. Terrible films don't have eighty-two page forum topics with 2000+ replies, so that's certainly noteworthy. I don't regret the money spent to rent it, and I would watch it again if I had to do it over. Putting some of the plot and bodily special effects aside, I enjoyed it. If I had to sum the film up, I'd say it was a good war film with excellent staging and props, but perhaps a bit lacking in plot and excessive on the special effects.

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Yeah, I haven't seen any of the director's other movies, maybe he uses the gore in lieu of other techniques. I guess I agree with you somewhat, Viewfinder, on the gore being an effective medium to our generation to convey the terrible realities our ancestors faced that may otherwise be taken for granted. At the same time, I think any high-budget Hollywood movie starring Brad Pitt, Shia LaBeouf, etc. and featuring a couple of explosions and tanks in the trailer would draw the crowds regardless, and the general messages of sacrifice and widespread tragedy would still pervade. "Band of Brothers" was only fifteen years ago so it's still relatively current to our time, and it had nowhere close to the amount of gore in "Fury." I think we can all agree that while it's somewhat a case of apples to oranges, "Band of Brothers" is infinitely superior to "Fury." But again, either way this movie has accomplished what I hope it set out to do, which is to educate the public. Terrible films don't have eighty-two page forum topics with 2000+ replies, so that's certainly noteworthy. I don't regret the money spent to rent it, and I would watch it again if I had to do it over. Putting some of the plot and bodily special effects aside, I enjoyed it. If I had to sum the film up, I'd say it was a good war film with excellent staging and props, but perhaps a bit lacking in plot and excessive on the special effects.

 

Well said, sir :)

***Items from unit called 8th Field Depot***

[Most frequently-sought unit because of family connection]

 

Intact ["out of the woodwork"] Marine Corps combat groups from WWII.

 

Unique items signed by many Marines from one unit, or inscribed with combat history.

 

Marine Corps valor recipient items.

 

Souvenirs taken by Marines with exceptional background and/or unique stories/documentation.

 

Marine Ship Detachment items from major naval engagements and those that warrant stars to ETO ribbon.

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How could a fresh out of boot camp teenager be sent to a tank without any specialty training?

 

I have read lines like this several times in this discussion and I need to respond.

 

Type "Sherman Tank" in Youtube and the first few videos you'll see WWII veterans talking about how some tanker replacements in his Armored Division were taken straight off the infantry line units or truck companies and put to serve on tanks. You'll see where one veteran recounts, towing tanks with a wrecker, scrubbing the insides of tanks to clean the KIA remains out of the tank, making repairs, and put right back into service with patched together crews. This is how the US Army kept itself rolling with limited resources and supplies.

 

David Ayers was NOT making this part up.

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Yeah, I haven't seen any of the director's other movies, maybe he uses the gore in lieu of other techniques. I guess I agree with you somewhat, Viewfinder, on the gore being an effective medium to our generation to convey the terrible realities our ancestors faced that may otherwise be taken for granted. At the same time, I think any high-budget Hollywood movie starring Brad Pitt, Shia LaBeouf, etc. and featuring a couple of explosions and tanks in the trailer would draw the crowds regardless, and the general messages of sacrifice and widespread tragedy would still pervade. "Band of Brothers" was only fifteen years ago so it's still relatively current to our time, and it had nowhere close to the amount of gore in "Fury." I think we can all agree that while it's somewhat a case of apples to oranges, "Band of Brothers" is infinitely superior to "Fury." But again, either way this movie has accomplished what I hope it set out to do, which is to educate the public. Terrible films don't have eighty-two page forum topics with 2000+ replies, so that's certainly noteworthy. I don't regret the money spent to rent it, and I would watch it again if I had to do it over. Putting some of the plot and bodily special effects aside, I enjoyed it. If I had to sum the film up, I'd say it was a good war film with excellent staging and props, but perhaps a bit lacking in plot and excessive on the special effects.

 

I think the Director used the gore to show the effects that it had on the Soldiers over time. In the scene after the Armor/IN Team knocks out the AT guns and Norman has the minor breakdown over what he had just seen/done; Gordo tells him simply "this is what we do every day." I don't think that statement was meant to be demeaning to Norman but to wake him up to his new reality. War is a dirty, bloody business. And Soldiers face that reality day after day which can have a numbing effect on them. The bloodiest war movie I have ever scene paled to the gore of real world casualties. While the gore may have been of putting to some; I think it was necessary to remind the viewer that war is not pretty and that men die in horrible ways.

 

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The plot of the film and the tank war inc the US and German infantry tactical in the film can be questioned but the instructor have seen into history books and made his research 100% correct, he had advisers who knew what happened when people are fighting war and what they do to each other, the scene where they move the dead tank man is recorded before (see clip) :

 

 

I know this is tough stuff but it's reality, - also the attacked on the German SS Schützen is correct (pic 1) the photo is from Normandy of a HJ and taken outside Caen but it is unimportant, it happened all over the ETO, plot and details is correct, the instructor also make the image of the "Boddy Wagon" correct (pic 2) the film cut and the exposure is as the war was in 1945 and a study in detail..

 

I think that the film will give a new wave of harsh but accurate war movie, with this type of movies they can never return to a Sherman tank with a swastika on who then is to be a Tiger 1,- this time is over and there is no easy way to make a war movie ever from now !

 

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I have read lines like this several times in this discussion and I need to respond.

 

Type "Sherman Tank" in Youtube and the first few videos you'll see WWII veterans talking about how some tanker replacements in his Armored Division were taken straight off the infantry line units or truck companies and put to serve on tanks. You'll see where one veteran recounts, towing tanks with a wrecker, scrubbing the insides of tanks to clean the KIA remains out of the tank, making repairs, and put right back into service with patched together crews. This is how the US Army kept itself rolling with limited resources and supplies.

 

David Ayers was NOT making this part up.

You are so correct!

I have several of these statements in my letters from Tanker Veterans as well.

A lot of the newcomers heard "you'll learn it on the job .... if you live that long" from the more veteran tankers.

War is tough, hard, horrible.

 

As for the gore, for me it was really shocking to see but it was not over the top.

In NCIS they're not firing a tank shell point blank into your face, now are they?

It is good to see scenes like that, no longer the "poof you're dead" and then a body with a small trickle of blood in the corner of his mouth.

Saving Pvt Ryan has some gruesome scenes too, strange nobody mentions that ....

 

Erwin

704th Tank Destroyer Battalion

 

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I think the we need to be careful what we post here graphic wise... I will let one of the seniors decide if clean up is needed, but remember we do have some younger eyes on here from time to time. I understand the point that is being made, and a great point it is...but sometimes we have to be cautious of the eyes that can see the gore that is war.

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I think the we need to be careful what we post here graphic wise... I will let one of the seniors decide if clean up is needed, but remember we do have some younger eyes on here from time to time. I understand the point that is being made, and a great point it is...but sometimes we have to be cautious of the eyes that can see the gore that is war.

I understand what you mean but the same eyes you mention may have seen The Fury several times and can find the same thing on You tube and it's almost what TV is displayed during meal times in the evening, just my opinion !

The pic and clips were put on to show the realism of the film The Fury and the research, nothing else - sorry this was misunderstood..

 

Please remove the post !

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I understand what you mean but the same eyes you mention may have seen The Fury several times and can find the same thing on You tube and it's almost what TV is displayed during meal times in the evening, just my opinion !

The pic and clips were put on to show the realism of the film The Fury and the research, nothing else - sorry this was misunderstood..

 

Please remove the post !

 

It doesnt bother me...thats why I said I will let someone else decide. And yes, I am sure there is much worse out there for anyone to see. I just know that we do like to be family friendly if possible. Thank you for understanding

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I think the we need to be careful what we post here graphic wise... I will let one of the seniors decide if clean up is needed, but remember we do have some younger eyes on here from time to time. I understand the point that is being made, and a great point it is...but sometimes we have to be cautious of the eyes that can see the gore that is war.

 

These photos are fine.

I have seen much worse posted on here.

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I just got the chance to watch it last night. Very entertaining movie, up til the last fight. The attention to detail was amazing. Just curious, did they really use that many tracer rounds in the 50cal? Some of the shooting sequences seemed a bit "Star Wars"ish with the red and green tracers going back and forth. I don't know how realistic that was. For the most part the actors did well in their protrayals. It was a good war movie, but the story and characters/character development lacked some depth. But, I'd definitely watch it again.

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I just got the chance to watch it last night. Very entertaining movie, up til the last fight. The attention to detail was amazing. Just curious, did they really use that many tracer rounds in the 50cal? Some of the shooting sequences seemed a bit "Star Wars"ish with the red and green tracers going back and forth. I don't know how realistic that was. For the most part the actors did well in their protrayals. It was a good war movie, but the story and characters/character development lacked some depth. But, I'd definitely watch it again.

Thats what I thought, I saw this with a few of my friends and they all thought that as well.

 

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A co-worker brought that up as well.

I must admit, while I'm very familiar with weapons, I have no idea if German rounds would create a different signature to the eye while going downrange that would look a different color than an American-made one.

Lee Bishop Formerly known as "Ratchet 5" with the 2nd Infantry Division (yes, in REAL life)

US WW2 War Correspondent collector

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M2 HB rate of fire is 600 rds per minute with 1 out of five bullets being a tracer. So each M2 could shoot 120 tracers in a minute. The M1919 30 Cals (Bow, TC and coax guns also had a rate of fire of about 600 rds a minute so that could also produce up to 120 tracers a minute a piece. If only the 30 cals were firing and they daisy chained the belts so there was no need to reload, each Sherman could fire up to 360 tracer rounds in a minute. Multiply that by the 4 tanks that were firing in one scene and you have a lot of tracers.

 

I don't know if the German Machine guns used green tracers or not. But I know they do exist. In fact modern Russian rounds use green tracers. I think part of the reason they may have seemed excessive is that tracers are usually not used in movies at all.

 

my $.02

 

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In fact modern Russian rounds use green tracers. I think part of the reason they may have seemed excessive is that tracers are usually not used in movies at all.

 

Yeah, i was aware of green communist tracers as they're well documented in 'Nam.

I was refering to the AT and HE rounds going back and forth, I should have been more specific on that. I have watched plenty of modern tanks firing main guns and you can sometimes see a glow going downrange if you catch it just right and have enough time for your eye to track it.

The colors of those rounds left me wondering, though.

Lee Bishop Formerly known as "Ratchet 5" with the 2nd Infantry Division (yes, in REAL life)

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I have read lines like this several times in this discussion and I need to respond.

 

Type "Sherman Tank" in Youtube and the first few videos you'll see WWII veterans talking about how some tanker replacements in his Armored Division were taken straight off the infantry line units or truck companies and put to serve on tanks. You'll see where one veteran recounts, towing tanks with a wrecker, scrubbing the insides of tanks to clean the KIA remains out of the tank, making repairs, and put right back into service with patched together crews. This is how the US Army kept itself rolling with limited resources and supplies.

 

David Ayers was NOT making this part up.

 

That is the effect of only getting your WWII history from the History Channel. I would suspect a great deal of collectors and critics never read much of any bibliographies or historical studies on unit actions having no real concept of the war.

Also a lot of critique of the characters in the film in which I liked the choice of personalities. Not everyone was clean, well spoken and educated. You had a North Georgian okie which probably never had an education past the 5th grade and anybody that has had associations with deep rural people would agree that's a pretty dead on representation. Gordie I thought represented typical small-town USA, an average god faring individual never been in trouble type in an extraordinary situation. The driver, forget his name, was a nice ethnic change and an appropriate representation. Wardaddy had street smarts, he acted and thought like a kid that grew up in the streets of a large city during the depression Chicago, New York etc. he had that sixth sense, a hardened individual and by growing up in the rough and tumble streets of the big city it carried over into natural survival techniques in war.

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There are numerous accounts of Germans using green tracers in WWII, or sometimes green to red (called grun-rot in german) in their machine guns.

 

Here's a quote from Buck Compton's book refering to the D-Day jump, "Tracer bullets and anti­aircraft started to appear, red, blue and green tracers, spectacular and deadly against the night sky." Here's another from American Courage, American Carnage: 7th Infantry Chronicles, "In spite of the quick crossing, the scene on the northern riverbank was borderline chaotic. Flinching from enemy machine-gun fire(spitting out white and green tracers with terriifying frequency), the soldiers clustered along small sandbars and huddled beneath the bank of the river." Here's one more for good measure, from Granddaddy, Tell us about the War : a Southern GI's Experiences in WWII, "The country was so wide open it was easy to see flares and the red and green tracers off in the distance. The green tracers were German, the red ours."

 

I thought the green tracer fire was a great detail. It might look like Star Wars to you because green tracers haven't been used in any other WWII movies.

 

 

 

 

I just got the chance to watch it last night. Very entertaining movie, up til the last fight. The attention to detail was amazing. Just curious, did they really use that many tracer rounds in the 50cal? Some of the shooting sequences seemed a bit "Star Wars"ish with the red and green tracers going back and forth. I don't know how realistic that was. For the most part the actors did well in their protrayals. It was a good war movie, but the story and characters/character development lacked some depth. But, I'd definitely watch it again.

 

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There are numerous accounts of Germans using green tracers in WWII, or sometimes green to red (called grun-rot in german) in their machine guns.

 

Here's a quote from Buck Compton's book refering to the D-Day jump, "Tracer bullets and anti­aircraft started to appear, red, blue and green tracers, spectacular and deadly against the night sky." Here's another from American Courage, American Carnage: 7th Infantry Chronicles, "In spite of the quick crossing, the scene on the northern riverbank was borderline chaotic. Flinching from enemy machine-gun fire(spitting out white and green tracers with terriifying frequency), the soldiers clustered along small sandbars and huddled beneath the bank of the river." Here's one more for good measure, from Granddaddy, Tell us about the War : a Southern GI's Experiences in WWII, "The country was so wide open it was easy to see flares and the red and green tracers off in the distance. The green tracers were German, the red ours."

 

I thought the green tracer fire was a great detail. It might look like Star Wars to you because green tracers haven't been used in any other WWII movies.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for the references.

 

 

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