HILLBILLY-06 Posted June 21, 2013 Share #1 Posted June 21, 2013 I came accross what is said by the current owner to be a 1952 wliiys jeep. I have seen it in person, and man, It has potential to be a nice jeep, if all the parts are there, and I can figure out how to put it back together. The story is, that the jeep was formerly used in parades, & someone fell on hard times and swapped it for some rather luxurious carpentry work when thier thier job forced them to move out of town and leave it behind. The current owner, began the restoration process, and then already up in the years, decided he didn't want to mess with it anymore. So there it sits, a brand new fiberglass tubb body, the one with no trunk, like the M38 jeep. It has an 80 inch wheel base, one piece window glass and vent in the window frame. But nothing is bolted together or anything, not the hood, the window frame, nor the fenders. All thathose parts were on it in the pictures I saw in the add, but they are just sitting on it. I didn't even see any holes drilled in the new body where you would mount the parts yet. Man it is nice, has had a frame off paint & restoration with somekind of green paint, maybe not the OD green, but very similar if not that. The engine is complete, but all the underhood components are out of it, in boxes, and buckets, and I mean several buckets and boxes. There is a bow top rail assembly, but I didn't see the mounts on the body to use it. There is a complete (black) canvas jeep top (full enclosure) but store in a building, there is a roll bar, but also stored in a building. He said he had the ring and pinion changed, don't know if he kept original, forgot to ask. The seat frames and brand new upulstered seat cusions ( not GI type green) but some stripe grey and white or some weird thing, but nothing bolted down or on. As for the little Go-Devil- Engine, well it looks good, but I can't rotate the engine, all I could do was when backing up the large socket wrench, I managed to loosen the pulley nut. He said the engine was running when they put it in the shop, so he didn't understand why it wouldn't turn. I guess the rings are stuck, There is no gobbed up crudd on the pistons, and only spotty surface looking rust on the top of them, but no water standing on them. I am hoping that I can pour something in there to lossen up what ever is stuck? not sure yet about that. He has the Data plates in a bag too. I have gone out on a serious limb and sold some my Special Grade M1 Garand, mint condition and my 1903 RIA, to get money and my partial trade for this weekend. Lord I hope he don't change his mind. I offered him the guns in partial trade, but for the very first time in my life, I finally met someone who don't believe in guns & never owned one in his whole life, and didn't want them. So I had to sell both of them to get some cash. "I know" I should have had more than my foot in the door before I done that, but I could not risk not having the cash when we meet this weekend. He wants my big John Deere mower real bad, but has to come see it, & I want him to run it and use it here, to see how it works. We should start talkin turkey again once that happens. Anyway, here are a couple of pics of how it looks now, "What do ya'll think she's worth now in this shape?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HILLBILLY-06 Posted June 21, 2013 Author Share #2 Posted June 21, 2013 Second Pic... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobrahistorian Posted June 21, 2013 Share #3 Posted June 21, 2013 Looks good, but you say it's got a fiberglass tub? If it's a fiberglass tub, I'd avoid it.Are there any data plates on it? As for getting the engine unstuck, it could just be a buildup of gunk underneath the pistons. I soaked my GPW's pistons for three months. Used everything I was told to (automatic transmission fluid, diesel, PB blaster, etc) and nothing worked. Finally took a steel pipe and a sledgehammer and banged them out. The cylinders were near perfect, but there was such a buildup of dirt on the underside of them that they were frozen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HILLBILLY-06 Posted June 21, 2013 Author Share #4 Posted June 21, 2013 Last pic for now, let me know what ya'll think... but WOW if this guy changes his mind on me, I'm going to be sick for a long time after selling my guns.... LOL I will keep my fingers crossed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HILLBILLY-06 Posted June 21, 2013 Author Share #5 Posted June 21, 2013 Well, I hope your right, but will it break the rings doing that? or anything... this is all new to me, and well a big gamble I guess, and yes he has data plates in a zip lock. He thinks he has a title for it, but couldn't find it... Maybe hopefully not a biggie there.... maybe. I live in Alabama, so perhaps I wont need a title for it, I just hope thier's no Leans on it or anything... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HILLBILLY-06 Posted June 21, 2013 Author Share #6 Posted June 21, 2013 Yes, it looks like a fiberglass tubb body, the only reason I say that is I crawled unde it to see the paint on the frame, and I saw the underside of the tubb, it looks just like under a bath tubb... LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HILLBILLY-06 Posted June 21, 2013 Author Share #7 Posted June 21, 2013 Here is the underside view, I have to re-size all my pics, so it took me a while to get organized... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HILLBILLY-06 Posted June 21, 2013 Author Share #8 Posted June 21, 2013 Well, I hate to avoid it, in light of seeing all the rusted out junkers in my area. I know the fiberglass won't rust, I also realize it isn't as sturdy as a new steel tubb. But I have looked at several of these for sale in the last few years... This is the best looking one yet. No kidding... One, I stood in the tubb, with my feet on the ground, and never touched the floor because it was all rusted away from front to back. Another one sort of has a floor, but the rest of it is a total rust bucket and beat all up real bad like it rolled over someplace. Another not a lick paint, not a single pigment on it anywhere, just solid rust 100% all rust, no glass, and the engine was toast, running gear was piled up in the floor, it was not for me. This one, is in way better shape, the replacement tubbs I looked at online, including fiberglass ones are mostly over $3,000.00. So I know it has had lots of money spent on it at one time, I just don't know what its worth now??? Any suggestions.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HILLBILLY-06 Posted June 21, 2013 Author Share #9 Posted June 21, 2013 Here is an engine compartment pic, notice how some genious put the carburator on backwards... other than that, it looks ok, especially compared to the other ones I have seen, Oh and at some point somebody looks to have converted it to 12 volt, I think the rest of that stuff is in buckets and boxes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m38matilda Posted June 21, 2013 Share #10 Posted June 21, 2013 I have an M38 restored from the ground up to original specs. The tires are incorrect and should be 16" NDTs. The tub is completely wrong. There is no battery compartment on the cowl for the second battery (The M38's are ALL 24 volt, not the civilian 12volt. They have 2 batteries one in the engine compartment mounted on the frame and one in a box in front of the windshield. and all electrical equipment like starter, generator, lights, etc must be 24 volt.) There are no holes for the wiring harness or vacuum tubing in the firewall (M38s were designed to still drive while with the engine submerged underwater and have a system of tubing throughout the engine that allows the engine to pressurize when fording), It should have a rear dropdown tailgate (which is not used on the military jeeps but gets bolted shut to mount the spare tire bracket) This has the WW2 MB style closed rear. The rear bumper is wrong and the front bumper is missing the predrilled holes, there are no footman loops on the tub, or front and rear top bow brackets, the special carbuerator is installed facing the wrong way, the spark plugs are incorrect, the dash on the tub is missing the cutouts for the emergency brake and glove compartment...and too much more to go into. If that tub is really fiberglass it will reduce the value substantially. Is the engine set up for the original 24 volt system and are all the parts there? I'd make sure this guy has everything before I gave him a dime frankly. Its a real mess. Trying to be helpful so you don't get ripped off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m38matilda Posted June 21, 2013 Share #11 Posted June 21, 2013 Okay, looking at the new pics it has been converted to 12v, hence the alternator. The distributor is civilian and there are some things missing on the engine block like the oil filter for one. Also the firewall mounted oil bath air filter is missing. Radiator stabilizing rod missing, water pump bypass tube from the cylinder head to water pump not there. The combination fuel/vacuum pump looks correct but I can't tell if its been plugged and there is a metal tube with a valve in it that gets mounted to the head connecting the carb and air filter that's missing, no throttle/choke cables or accelerator control linkage. The frame is correct and is military. Just hrow away the fiberglass crap tub and get a good original steel one and you'll have a good base to go from for something that will have value.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HILLBILLY-06 Posted June 21, 2013 Author Share #12 Posted June 21, 2013 He did tell me when I first looked at it, that there were originally two batteries, and that only one was under the hood, and the other one somewhere else. I don't know at what point they started to change it over... He was asking $3,500.00 but I told him that I couldn't go that high just based on the engine not functional and stuck, won't turn over with a big socket and large wrench, I didn't want to force it and break anything, so I stopped messing with that. Then He said he would in fact take less, I would like you guy's to steer me a good offer to make him, when we get together this weekend. I didn't know that a fiberglass body was a no-no, I thought when I first saw it that is was kool as heck, but now I am starting to learn some stuff, can you guy's let me know if those bodies are dangerous, or prone to being unsafe to drive around in? I don't know anything about them at all, and this is the first one I have seen in person. I just wanna know what I'm getting into? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88thID Buyer Posted June 21, 2013 Share #13 Posted June 21, 2013 AWESOME JEEP!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arushing Posted June 21, 2013 Share #14 Posted June 21, 2013 Do it !! For that price, you could get it back together, play with for a few years, and then sell or trade it for something better. Looks like alot of the stuff is there. There are lots of parts out there for M38's. I'd say $2500.00 would be a decent deal. There's more there in parts alone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HILLBILLY-06 Posted June 22, 2013 Author Share #15 Posted June 22, 2013 I sure am anxious to see him tomarrow, As we left it on our last conversation, I am to call him between 6am and 7am tomarrow morning. I just hope he's up when I call, and ready to continue where we left off. I got some very useful information here, very useful, and I will try to use it to bargain the best price possible. But if he is persistant on sticking too close to the $3,500.00 price he first asked, I will have to pass. I just can't get that much together, and some have said that's possibly too high anyway, which I tend to agree with. I think I can put the body together, if the parts are indeed all there... I am worried about the engine, and the fact that for some reason the fiberglass body might not be such a good idea, & is aparently perhaps the wrong style. If I understood one of the other responses here, it is a WW2 Body, on a 52" military frame. So that kind of sucks as far as being "correct parts" but it just looks so good, I just have to try and bargain with him. Heck, I bet the kids would love to help me work on it, especially being out for summer break. It's something we could all get involved with, but right now its just all up in the air until I talk to him. Anyway, Thanks to everyone for your help and your support, if the deal goe's bust, well... I tried, that's all anyone can do I suppose. I'll update again sometime later this weekend after I do everything I can to bargain right tomarrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hbtcoveralls Posted June 22, 2013 Share #16 Posted June 22, 2013 Here's my 2 cents. I've been in Military Vehicles for a long time so I know of what I speak. This vehicle will never be what you want it to be. With the fiberglass body it will never be show quality or even close. With that engine problem you might be looking at a rebuild for somewhat around $1000.00. With such a strange chain of ownership is there a title? most states require a title to be registered and insured. Look at the M-38 section on the "G503" website http://g503.com/forums/ and educate yourself. It may seem cheap now, but believe me, there is still a lot of peices and parts that you'll want and thousands of dollars yet to spend, and once it's done you really won't have a jeep that is worth much more than the purchase price. I honestly would pass at $3500.00. If you really want a Jeep then decide what you want to spend and look for what you really want. Tom Bowers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johan Willaert Posted June 22, 2013 Share #17 Posted June 22, 2013 What Tom says.... Walk away and look for a decent project which will meet your expectations... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HILLBILLY-06 Posted June 22, 2013 Author Share #18 Posted June 22, 2013 WOW, bummer... I'm up this morning clock watchin.. waiting for time to call him. I got about 20 minutes left before I really start to get nervous. "Ya'll have all helped me a lot" I have a lot to think about now. I think I will plead with him about these details, and see if I can get his price way down, or I'm just gonna start to feel real bad about the whole deal altogether. I am glad you let me know about the fiberglass body effecting it so much. The parts, well I think they are all there in boxes and buckets. But until I dump it all out on the ground, I just wont know. I guess I am not concearned so much that it will only ever be worth so much, which isn't much as it could have been, but that is a serious set back to really consider. I really thank you all for your support, and I will not give the high end price he is asking at all. If I can talk to him today and point out thes things I have learned, perhaps he will be understanding and just want the thing gone no matter what. He is an older gentleman, and can't work on it no more. But he is also a "Pastor of a church" in that community, so I he's probly heard a lot of sob stories in his day's and may be hard to bargain with, I don't know for sure. But now I got 10 minutes to put on my "bargain hat" as tight as I can fit it, and see how far I can talk him down, or as some have said, maybe just have to pass. I'll know here soon, But I got to call him first, & see for sure we are still going to meet today or if anything has come up? or anyone has alreadt baught it. It's been several days since we spoke... "Thanks everyone" I will let ya'll know what happens.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johan Willaert Posted June 22, 2013 Share #19 Posted June 22, 2013 You just have to ask yourself one question...' Will any Jeep do? Or do you want a WW2 or other period model.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost Posted June 22, 2013 Share #20 Posted June 22, 2013 These fellows are giving you some very sound advice. Remember there are lots and lots of Jeeps around don't fall in love with the first perceived "good deal" you find. As far as this Jeep goes, it is what you don't see that can really get ya. 3500 for something you can't even do a simple compression check on? What about the tranny the t-case,front and rear diff and there is the little problem of where is all the military stuff? that is usually the first things thrown in the trash and can be some of the most expensive to replace. Good luck with whatever you decide CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m38matilda Posted June 22, 2013 Share #21 Posted June 22, 2013 "He did tell me when I first looked at it, that there were originally two batteries, and that only one was under the hood, and the other one somewhere else." Yes, it was in the cowl of the original tub that got tossed. He's the "pastor of a church"? In that case everything he says may be taken with, not a grain, but a pillar of salt (in this case better include a wedge of lime and a shot of tequila). Just jokin'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HILLBILLY-06 Posted June 22, 2013 Author Share #22 Posted June 22, 2013 WELL, we had our meeting, he really wants to do buisness with me... here is the deal... "I want all you guys to know, what I have been dealing for (hence the pics) and what I have on my end... I offered him a 20HP John Deere Mower, 42" cut, about a 2009 model or so, runs drives & works good, maybe dont look perfect, but functional & HE need's it to cut grass, Thats PART ONE. Part two is he wants about $1,800.00 more, and I can only offer him $1,300.00 that I can get this week. He wanted to go get it and deliver it, and me owe him $500.00. At which point he would then provide the tittle. I passed, for now, but told him I would call him Friday if I could still work with him.... He sounded let down too.... Man I don't know if I done right or wrong folks, but I just didn't have all the money, so I didn't know really what else to do. He was coming back for that mower and bringing me the jeep. I knew I wouldn't have $500.00 by Friday, but I guess he wanted me to make payments. Dang I feel bad, and hope he will still talk to me later on ?? But I keep remembering that some folks here really cautioned me about it, and I don't want to get in over my head, but I hate to see it go too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hbtcoveralls Posted June 22, 2013 Share #23 Posted June 22, 2013 Hold your ground or just walk away. Mower is worth about 1200 and he wants another 1800 so that's 3K. Remember again that the engine does not turn over and is stuck. You might be able to make it work but maybe not. Anything could be wrong in there. The fiberglass body is a real turn off, and might as well be tossed away. To finish it off and (assuming that the motor is usable as is) get it drivable and enjoyable you will be likley to spend another 3-9 thousand, depending if you get a steel body repro or used and needing repair, in parts and labor (your time is worth something). It could go higher if you need a new motor or trans or differential. So that's about 12,000.00 you'll have into it and I wager that today if you look closely, you can get a running somewhat restored WWII Jeep for about that. Save your money, watch G-503 join an MV club, even MVPA http://www.mvpa.org/ and then when you're really ready and have all the knowledge and preparation that you need, then you'll find the vehicle you really want. Tom Bowers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garandomatic Posted June 22, 2013 Share #24 Posted June 22, 2013 I've not delved into military vehicles, but bear with me, because I have a decent amount of experience throwing money at old rusty vehicles. I once fell passionately in love with a 64 SS Impala, and all she needed was everything. A lot of wasted money later (and a little more experience along the way), I moved on to other projects and it ended up being sold for $200 as scrap. Needless to say, I took a hit. Now, this thing, I don't know what the going rate for a project like this is, but with the hassle AND ADDED EXPENSE in making things somewhat right, It'd have to be darned near free. There's a lot of military stuff that several thousand could buy you, and you might even be able to save up for a more complete project, possibly a real winner. I could have had a 63 2 door post car (sedan) if I'd have saved my money, or better yet, bought one that RUNS. Built a '65 Impala a few years later, with cheap cheap cheap being my goal, and STILL went to about $8000. It WILL balloon, especially if you have a catalog full of goodies that you need. Additionally, stuck blocks can be brought back, heck, I saw a guy's car that had a Hemi in it that was STUCK about a foot up a tree trunk from where a sapling had grown many years ago and took that old block with it once it filled the cylinder enough. To put it in perspective, when the most common engine build in the world (smallblock 350 ci Chevy) will cost $1000 at the minimum, think about what that Jeep engine is going to need. If you were lottery lucky the cylinders will just need honed, decent chance it'll need bored, if that is the case, new pistons are in order, and unless they are the same as a civilian car's parts, they ain't gonna be cheap. Had a friend that needed custom pistons for a '58 Edsel, I think he had near $1000 in pistons alone, granted, it was a V8. Coming from an old car guy perspective, which I understand is independent of military vehicle prices, I'd pass at one penny over $1000 WITH a clean title, and that's if and only if I'd fallen in love with it, too. WAAAAAAAAAY too much stuff needs figured out or done for it to even be semi-presentable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svt40 Posted June 23, 2013 Share #25 Posted June 23, 2013 Typical engine rebuild is about $2000. New tub from HD Juan is about $3500. Those two things alone are enough to think about. And as everyone else has said it will not be worth anything with a fiberglass tub. I paid $3500 for my 42 GPW with a non running engine that turned over with the starter. It was converted to 12volt and had most of it's major components with a decent body. It still cost over $8500 to get it back on the road and 99% correct. That is not even a full on total resto of the body or frame which it still needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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