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The ABCs of Collecting WWII Army Issued HBT Clothing


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As for the differences in material and such. There are three answers.

 

1. The specs or follow on correspondence from the Army sometimes stated substitute material that was allowed to be used.

2. The army inspector and company worked out a substitution that both could agree on- often when there was a shortage of the item the inspectors could have more leeway, as well as if there was a stock of different material that might otherwise go to waste.

3. The company used a substitute and it was not OK'd by the Army, so it was never actually accepted, and ended up in a warehouse and being sold off after the war as surplus (even though it wasn't), or taken home by employees, or whatever.

 

 

That's why you see things like pocket material be different- it didn't matter much to the army what the unseen material was, and if there was surplus of something they were not going to use, the inspectors could decide it was just as strong/good and save the Army time by not waiting for the right stuff, money by using material on hand that would not mean more transportation and mill work.

 

The army may have been picky about their stuff, but they weren't stupid, and with a war on they did try and conserve.

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From the HBT clothing examples I have in my collection, the 13 star buttons are used on the majority of them. So I would say that they were the preferred buttons used for the HBT manufacture. After all they were very simple/fast to install which required no sewing or thread.

 

Bob

"No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor, dumb, bastard die for his country" George Pattons speech to the Third Army.

 

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  • 9 months later...
  • 2 weeks later...

Kurt, Thanks. It was my pleasure and I learned a lot also.

 

Bob

"No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor, dumb, bastard die for his country" George Pattons speech to the Third Army.

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

This is a great discussion--thanks!

 

I thought I would add my two-cents here:

 

Re the 45D Pattern--I have a mint one dated April 8, 1943 and is it clearly a sage green color and not OD 7.

 

This 45D example is identical to my 45B patterns, except that it does not have the horizontal seam, and small pleats on the upper back. (All my identified 45B patterns have that horizontal seam and small pleats on the upper back just like the first 45 pattern).

 

One other small variation I noticed on a couple of examples: in two that I have (including my father's original) the button holes on the ends of the sleeves are sewn together so that the sleeve opening is smaller.

 

Joe

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Joe, Thanks for supplying info on the specification 45B HBT Jackets. These are the illusive examples that I am still looking for to fill out my HBT jacket collection. Could you please post some photos of a 45B jacket with the seams and pleats you are referring to and a photo of any intact QM tag would be nice also.

 

Bob

"No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor, dumb, bastard die for his country" George Pattons speech to the Third Army.

 

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  • 7 months later...

oldabewla, Really NICE HBT jacket you got there!! Could you take a picture of the back of it so I can see the seams. Thanks and congratulations.

 

Bob

"No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor, dumb, bastard die for his country" George Pattons speech to the Third Army.

 

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Thanks Craig!! I appreciate your efforts. Now if there is no label on a jacket, I can have an idea if it is 45B or not.

 

Bob

"No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor, dumb, bastard die for his country" George Pattons speech to the Third Army.

 

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Last fall attended a tag sale in the area.There were some military items.A lot of paper and manuals.Pieceing the things together it turned out the man had been a Navay doctor and served on the USS Sibley(destroyer) was in the pacific and then on to china I was guessing.The house was a huge old brick turn of the century home.Full attic and the families who lived there over the years seemed to not throw a thing away.The tag sale company stated they spent two weeks pitching items in to yard long dumpsters just to get to the stuff they felt was sellable.The whole attic was full of paper goods,magazines,etc from the 20s thorught the early 80s.Plus a lot of wooden crates,boxes etc.I thought I had dug through most of the stuff and had even found some additional items left behind the tag sale crew never sorted through.I had spotted a large garbage bag in the attic and never paid to much attention to it.Gathered up my stuff I found that they hadnt tagged for sale and went to get it priced.Decided to go back on day number two to look around and went back to the attic.A lot of the stuff had been gone through and even some sold early to the area dealers prior to the sale.I saw the garbage bag again and decided to open it and look in.After sifting through some old letters and such I saw a familiar color...I pulled it out and it was a real nice hbt shirt.Looked unworn and no worse for wear after 70 years in an attic.Decided to look further and there were the pants to match!!Below that was a set of the foulweather deck gear(top and bottom) as well as a nice unissued navy marked tropical OD shirt.Hard to believe they threw it out as I had bought the ngt baseball cap the day before.Ended up giving about $15 for the garbage bag finds.

 

Looking over ther topic here it appears its a pattern 45B as well but has all the Navy/USN contract info and the steel buttons with laurel leafs.He it is as I found it

 

 

post-342-0-06798900-1440536303.jpg

 

post-342-0-72605300-1440536325.jpg

 

In Memoriam:
Lieutenant J.Kostelec 1-3 First Special Service Force MIA/PD 4 March 1944 Italy
I HAVE SEEN THE ENEMY AND IT IS DAYLIGHT
Forget about the tips..We'll get hell to pay (AC/DC)
"If you cant get out and run with the big dogs then sit on the porch and bark at the cars going by.."

Have you Hugged a Clown Today?

You Cant Get A Sun Tan On The Moon..





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Tag and Button

 

 

post-342-0-44414700-1440536701.jpg

 

 

post-342-0-48258700-1440536508.jpg

In Memoriam:
Lieutenant J.Kostelec 1-3 First Special Service Force MIA/PD 4 March 1944 Italy
I HAVE SEEN THE ENEMY AND IT IS DAYLIGHT
Forget about the tips..We'll get hell to pay (AC/DC)
"If you cant get out and run with the big dogs then sit on the porch and bark at the cars going by.."

Have you Hugged a Clown Today?

You Cant Get A Sun Tan On The Moon..





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Trousers

 

post-342-0-27166300-1440536618.jpg

 

post-342-0-87594600-1440536634.jpg

In Memoriam:
Lieutenant J.Kostelec 1-3 First Special Service Force MIA/PD 4 March 1944 Italy
I HAVE SEEN THE ENEMY AND IT IS DAYLIGHT
Forget about the tips..We'll get hell to pay (AC/DC)
"If you cant get out and run with the big dogs then sit on the porch and bark at the cars going by.."

Have you Hugged a Clown Today?

You Cant Get A Sun Tan On The Moon..





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Waist band markings

 

post-342-0-27501500-1440536813.jpg

 

post-342-0-37792900-1440536861.jpg

In Memoriam:
Lieutenant J.Kostelec 1-3 First Special Service Force MIA/PD 4 March 1944 Italy
I HAVE SEEN THE ENEMY AND IT IS DAYLIGHT
Forget about the tips..We'll get hell to pay (AC/DC)
"If you cant get out and run with the big dogs then sit on the porch and bark at the cars going by.."

Have you Hugged a Clown Today?

You Cant Get A Sun Tan On The Moon..





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Tropical shirt

 

post-342-0-16095200-1440536939.jpg

 

post-342-0-71478300-1440536953.jpg

 

post-342-0-10419400-1440536969.jpg

In Memoriam:
Lieutenant J.Kostelec 1-3 First Special Service Force MIA/PD 4 March 1944 Italy
I HAVE SEEN THE ENEMY AND IT IS DAYLIGHT
Forget about the tips..We'll get hell to pay (AC/DC)
"If you cant get out and run with the big dogs then sit on the porch and bark at the cars going by.."

Have you Hugged a Clown Today?

You Cant Get A Sun Tan On The Moon..





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  • 2 years later...
  • 1 year later...

Bringing this back to the top with a question about the pair shown in posts 19&20, page 1...

 

On that particular pair the cargo pockets are high up nearly against the waistband, contrary to most other pairs which have the trousers lower.

I have heard the pockets were lowered for ease of access on later 42C pattern trousers...

 

Can anyone confirm? Or is this just a manufacturer's variation

 

FWIW, on my Normandy worn CC2 treated pair the pockets are higher up that on other sets that I have...

 

Thx,

 

Johan

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  • 6 months later...

The label on this perfect-looking pair of HBT pants is driving me crazy. I cant find it in any reference book or site. I wonder if the pants are reproductions, but they came with a top that I was able to verify. Can anyone help? Thanks.

post-5641-0-95760200-1559403382.jpeg

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  • 5 months later...

MissFUBAR, don’t go nuts here. The QM tag looks good to me and tag details match tags on some of my trousers in the article. So I would assume they are original for the time being. BTW. What are you doubting about the tag?

 

Bob

"No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor, dumb, bastard die for his country" George Pattons speech to the Third Army.

 

donation2008.gif

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