What if D-Day had failed?

[Brig]

Like I tell me Marines, we can "what if" until we're blue in the face. What if D-Day had failed? What if the Germans hadn't invaded Russia? What if the US had stayed out of Europe and only worried about Japan? What if sharks had machine guns?

 

Let's be glad it didn't fail!

[ScottG]

I find all of the comments about the Germans being able to beat the Russians if D-Day failed a bit laughable. Even without the Normandy landings the Germans were on a two front war. So what does it matter if they beat back an invasion on the beach? Do you all honestly believe that the OKW or Hitler would then gut Western Europe to fight the Russians. He could have done that in 42 and 43, even as late as March 44 but he didn't. For an eye opener you should take a look at German troop strengths in such hotly contested areas as The Channel Islands, or even Holland prior to D-Day. Had Hitler wanted to move troops east he could have done so well before 44. These areas did not need the level of troops committed at the time.

He was fighting the western allies from 1940 onward, regardless of the majority of them being in the U.K. There was still a great threat and he knew an invasion would be attempted. He almost certainly knew that even if the invasion was defeated, the allies would strike again somewhere else. I doubt Dragoon would have been cancelled, it would however, have looked far different with many more units involved. Most likely it would have included simultaneous operations in Italy as well. For Russia to have been defeated by Germany it would have had to happen by the winter of 41. When this didn't happen, the pieces started to fall, army groups were taken off task and seizure of they key oil facilities was lost for good. Even with the troops from the western front, the Germans were not going to be able to re-launch a drive on Moscow. By 1944 the Russians would have been the victors in a war of attrition as the German supply system could never support the logistics needed to move east once again. The last thing to look at would be the status of Romania in 1944. They were the largest supplier of German oil and basically they changed sides... So, NO WAY the Germans were winning this war. A separate peace maybe, but that is another "what if" Scott.

[joeclown]

Lots has to do with the fact that prior to Germany attacking Russia, the russians had fought against the Japanese in Manchuria. Seems the turning point that saved Russia was information from a spy Richard Sorge who through his information was able to tell Russia that the Kwantung Army in Manchuria would not be attacking against Russian troops until Moscow was captured by the Germans. With that knowledge Stalin removed hundreds of thousands of troops that now headed west to help defeat the Germans. So how this relates to D-Day would be if it had failed I think Russia would have conquered all of Europe because of the lack of further japanese involvement.

[para1957]

Hi All,

 

what "IF"? If the Allies had been pushed back into the sea on D-Day plus one the losses would have been high but in the cold light of day, replaceable. However, losing the element of surprise would be the major factor. The huge deception that was orchestrated before D-Day might not have been as effective on a second attempt. I believe the South of France invasion would have been cancelled as the troops and material would have been diverted for a second attempt of a main invasion in late 44 or early 45.

 

The failure might have affected the Russian advance for a short period but by 1944 they was no stopping the end result from their perspective. The map of Europe would have looked very different post -war.

 

There is a film in the making here! In the 60`s there was a small budget black and white film made in England, cannot remember the title unfortunately, where Germany had successfully invaded England. A second front had been made by Allied Forces on the West coast of Britain. I can remember one scene where captured SS troops with A British shield on their shoulder and the cuff title "Black Prince" were gunned down in a field by British resistance forces. If you can locate it its worth a look.

 

If anyone can remember the title I would appreciate it if you could tell me. Would love to see if its still available.

 

Cheers.

[patches]

Para 1957, it is a Movie made in 1964 It Happened Here, one of the Directors/Producers was the well known British military historian Andrew Mollo. I actually seen the movie once, a few years back, I do believe it was shown on the American cabel T.V. channel, Turner Classic Movies.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It_Happened_Here

 

And a interesting site on the Black Prince Division insignia from the movie, plus real stuff from the British SS unit.

 

http://www.bills-bunker.privat.t-online.de/70216.html

 

[ajbUSWM]

What if Rudolph Hess had connected with his British Royal connection and formed a new alliance or some other agreement.

 

There are many "what ifs" but realistically, when the Germans lost North Africa, were retreating from the Russians, the Italians collapsing, and running out of food, oil, and supplies.... things were pretty bad by May 1944.

 

he turning points were earlier; Battle of Britain, Dunkirk, North Africa, Operation Barbarossa ... D-Day was just the final stake in the heart. Every remaining sane German officer knew the war was lost by August, 1944 (if not before).

[patches]

What IF They Gave a War and Nobody Came

[Gregory]

If it had, I'd be calling you all "Comrade" whilst eating cabbage soup and driving a Lada!

Dreamer!

 

The Lada would be not for you but for Comrade Secretary of the Communist Party in your workplace. For you could be at most Zaporozhets, if any.

 

Friend, you would have rationed such things as toilet paper, soap, meat, sugar, butter, shoes, fuel for your Zaporozhets.

 

Regards

 

[Sabrejet]

Well, thankfully my country never fell under the yoke of Communist oppression. I only know what it's like to be free. Obviously, very large numbers of your countrymen prefer it here, even though Poland has been self-determining for many years now.

[Andrei]

Hi All,

 

what "IF"? If the Allies had been pushed back into the sea on D-Day plus one the losses would have been high but in the cold light of day, replaceable. However, losing the element of surprise would be the major factor. The huge deception that was orchestrated before D-Day might not have been as effective on a second attempt. I believe the South of France invasion would have been cancelled as the troops and material would have been diverted for a second attempt of a main invasion in late 44 or early 45.

 

The failure might have affected the Russian advance for a short period but by 1944 they was no stopping the end result from their perspective. The map of Europe would have looked very different post -war.

 

There is a film in the making here! In the 60`s there was a small budget black and white film made in England, cannot remember the title unfortunately, where Germany had successfully invaded England. A second front had been made by Allied Forces on the West coast of Britain. I can remember one scene where captured SS troops with A British shield on their shoulder and the cuff title "Black Prince" were gunned down in a field by British resistance forces. If you can locate it its worth a look.

 

If anyone can remember the title I would appreciate it if you could tell me. Would love to see if its still available.

 

Cheers.

 

You can watch it on YouTube. The best part is the London visit, it looks so real ! The rest is pretty boring in my opinion. Andrew Mollo was involved in the making.