1980s gear questions

[VolunteerArmoury]

I was thinking back on my father's gear in early 80s towards the end of his career. He was an ambulance driver (prior to medics doing the driving) with an ACR so he didn't have all the stuff those of us in Infantry or other combat arms had. He had the quick release LC pistol belt, a single M1967 small arms pouch, for 20 round mags, a M1956 e tool on the left side, single canteen but I don't recall M1967, LINCLOE, or ALICE, ALICE suspenders, 1st Aid/compass pouch on the shoulder with a bandage, a crookneck flashlight, M1 helmet, M17A1 pro mask, medium ALICE pack without frame, & that's about all I can recall. I do remember he later was issued the CVC promask, CVC helmet, when his vehicle was changed from a cracker box to M113 ambulance. Seems he had body armor later issued but can't recall what it was or if he did have it for sure. Remember when he was issued a k pot but it was a long time before he received a cover.

 

I recall him wearing fatigues into the mid 80s, BDUs with white tshirts, then the brown ones. He also had the earplug case on the left breast pocket's inner button of his BDUs. Tan shirt under the class A. I don't remember him wearing tans nor jungles even though they were authorized at the time.

 

Some units I was in had us wearing the earplug case all the time & different units had it in different places from the upper button hole, left pocket nearer the chest then nearer arm, then on the inner button on the right side, then on the right belt loop then some didn't wear them on the uniform & just on the gear. A couple of the units had us put the DUI on them, one had us put a subdued officers crossed rifles, another had us camo it with tape or paint, yet another had rank but mostly it was a plain case.

[gpw_42]

Unbutton the top button of your blouse, loose the bandage on your head, and hide that pen in your pocket. Yes, there's a pen pocket there but that doesn't mean to stick out of it. I always used to put my pen in the breast above the buttons. I never saw anyone wearing googles around on their pc like that except when one a LZ one sandstorm but mostly on the pot if goggles were worn at all. The shade of the small arms pouches look like the 1990s but maybe that shinier looking web came out in the 80s. Check the dates in the flap of the pouch. Is the 1st Aid pouch a M1944 or a commercial one? The ones I was issued had "lift dots" snaps. Other than lacking insignia on the blouse the rest is ok.

 

You also need the 80s-90s Army-issue glasses - the ones which are cool in 2013 weren't around in the era you're trying to recreate. Those were called BCDs (birth control devices) because they were so ugly. Even better if you can get a BLACK elastic geek strap to go around the back of your head, but that's a detail...correct glasses are essential (or don't wear them).

 

You should be able to find a nametape and rank insignia (is there a shadow of the old rank?) on the forum, to replace what's missing from the BDU jacket.

 

Also, I'd put the waist strap from your pro-mask UNDER the skirt of the BDU top. Much more comfortable that way.

 

I like that you're displaying something other than one of the "super hooah" units!

 

+1 to everything Volunteer Armoury said. I missed the pen, but he was spot on - and they were always worn as he describes (out of sight!)

 

Steve

[msgt norway]

here are one type of the birth control devices glasses

 

 

on the side of my buttpack is the first aid kit you should have

 

bdu shirt open in top like this:)

 

and youre doing great for you first time photo shoot!

 

cheers from ken,norway

[fallout]

Thanks, I already have the glasses on the way I ordered them yesterday and when they get here I will get the lenses. Ok so what insignias go on the BDU US ARMY, name tape, and what else, rank I thought they did not wear the rank on the BDU, and unit patch, is that correct?

[BEAST]

Thanks, I already have the glasses on the way I ordered them yesterday and when they get here I will get the lenses. Ok so what insignias go on the BDU US ARMY, name tape, and what else, rank I thought they did not wear the rank on the BDU, and unit patch, is that correct?

 

 

fallout,

 

Both officers and enlisted wore rank on the collars of their BDUs.

[fallout]

Ok thanks.

[Rakkasan187]

Your impression looks great so far. I know you are waiting on the Kevlar so don't worry about the goggles on your head for now. You can take the dressing off your head and wrap it around your neck. This was called the "do rag" or drive on rag. It was worn around the neck as a sweat rag. My commander and First Sergeant used to allow us to wear this bandage as a sweat rag, just as long as it was not hanging out. It is kind of like a boy scout neckerchief, but instead of being on the outside it was worn on the inside. One other thing the commander did not want to see was the bandage wrapped around your head, similar to what Sgt Barnes was wearing in the 1986 movie about Vietnam "Platoon".

 

I see that you have officer's branch of service for engineers sewn to your uniform on the collar. You will need to find some officer's rank for the opposite collar or remove the engineer insignia and replace it with sew on or pin on enlisted rank.

 

Your rucksack looks like a small ruck from the pictures. This was the standard issue rucksack in most units in the 80's. When I first arrived at Fort Campbell, I was issued a small rucksack similar to yours. It was very challenging trying to pack all our gear into the small rucksack. A lot of us would buy what was called the "ranger ruck" or large rucksack on the economy. There was a surplus store called "Bricks" outside gate # 4 at Fort Campbell. Some great stuff in that shop, but it burned to the ground in 1986 or 87 and was replaced by the U.S. Cavalry store. I think it too went out of business.

 

Anyway, see if you can find a large rucksack, if not, it's still OK but you will be limited to what you can show for your impression.

 

I would try to get a sleeping mat for your ruck as well. The way that you have your sleeping bag on the ruck is appropriate, as I saw many units place the sleeping bag in this position. In the units I was in, we attached the sleeping bag to the bottom of the rucksak. This gave us the freedom of placing other equipment under the top flap of the rucksack. For example when I was a dragon gunner the M47 Dragon would be placed on top of the ruck. When I was an assistant machine gunner, I carried the spare barrel bag and tripod under the top flap. When I became an M60 machine gunner I carried 200 rounds of M60 belted ammunition on top of the ruck for quick use and access.

 

We very rarely used the sleeping mat in the field. It was used to form the inside of our duffel bags. I will show you pictures of my 1980's gear in full field layout and I will show you how we packed both the rucksack and duffel bags with our equipment.

 

See if you can fins and entrenching tool and green plastic cover as well. You can attach this to the side of the rucksack. I know in some units it was mounted on the pistol belt.

 

Everything looks real good so far. Keep up the good work.

 

Leigh

[fallout]

On top of my rucksack is my sleeping bag, mat, and shelter half in a waterproof bag, on the other side is my E tool. I will remove the insignia and get the right ones, thanks for all of the help.

[flashesandovals]

Pic.

M1 canteen caps in the 80's were black. If you use an OD one (late 89-90), it shoud be the older type where the lid has a fixed attachment loop on the cap. The one you are using here is an improved version with a detachable lid that did not show up before about 94. This was created because the older ones, such as the black ones, used to break. That is why many soldiers used duck tape and/or 550 cord to keep it in place.

 

Pascal

[Fender Rhodes]

On top of my rucksack is my sleeping bag, mat, and shelter half in a waterproof bag, on the other side is my E tool. I will remove the insignia and get the right ones, thanks for all of the help.

 

I'll apologize up front if I'm double-tapping stuff that other members already covered. Considering the amount of tactical knowledge we have in this forum, you will be well covered in sound, combat-proven advice.

 

We never took shelter halves to the field. Poncho hooches if anything. Most of the time it we slept under the stars, wrapped in a poncho liner (or two). Shelter halves were wasted weight. For the time frame you are portraying, get yourself an M65 field jacket with liner (a Grenada Raider friend of mine typically refers to this period as "BG" or "before GoreTex"). When it got cold, that's what we wore, along with black leather gloves and wool green inserts (or nomex gloves if you had them) and a black wool (or modern equivalent) watch cap (like what Ken has on in his first pic, although I made three deployments to Norway and can't ever remember wearing our rank insignia pinned to our watch caps).

 

You should have a squad leaders green notebook (nicknamed a 'green monster' in the Corps). In it you'll keep SOIs, range cards, etc. Some of us got the soft plastic pilot's flight books (dark blue front cover with opaque plastic pocketed pages that you could slip data cards, communicator cheat cards, range cards, FAC cookbook, etc into, see this link: http://flighthelmet.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=MISC-FCCL&Category_Code=PRCB). Generally these were kept in your cargo pockets.

 

Take your flashlight out of the grenade pocket on your ammo pouch. It should be hooked to your suspenders and held down with an extra boot band or rubber band. If you keep it the grenade pouch, odds are it'll get banged up when you go prone, invariably leading to broken bulbs. Also make sure it has the red lens in it. That is for tactical purposes (noise and light discipline at all times!). At night the red light does not travel as far as white light.

 

One of the guys already said it but, yes, when you put on your gas mask carrier, the waist strap should be under the blouse. This makes it easier to remove your blouse and lets the body heat escape instead of it being trapped in the blouse by the waist strap.

 

Tuck the spoon from your frag grenade inside the pouch. Remember things like that can get caught on stuff...think of it this way, you need to spider crawl over a wall tactically...the spoon from that grenade can get caught on something on that wall. It then takes you critical extra seconds to climb over, leaving you exposed to enemy fire. Life and death is a matter of critical seconds.

 

Remove the MRE from the bottom of the buttpack and slide the canteens and ammo pouches all the way to the rear. The canteens should but up against the buttpack and the ammo pouches but up against the canteens. This leaves the midsection free for when you go prone. You don't want to land on full ammo pouches when hitting it. Full magazines hurt like hell. Keep extra socks, an MRE, rifle cleaning gear and a small survival kit in your buttpack. If you are going to continue portraying an officer, you'll need a black leather holster, unless you are portraying late 80's. Then you can get away with the green nylon USGI Bianchi holster for the M9 Beretta.

 

Ditch the first aid kit. The snaps are incorrect. It should have WWII-style 'lift-the-dot' snaps. and we generally wore ours on the side of the buttpack so not to interfere with the opening or closing of the flap. I generally had my IFAK on the opposite side from the side I carried my canteen cup. I was always looking to maintain the balance of my fighting load...right down to the smallest degree.

 

If you are going to stay with the engineer impression, you'll need a lineman's pouch. This was a leather, two-section pouch with lift-the-dot snaps. It held a pliers (called "TL's", I believe the nomenclature was TL-20) and a engineers stainless steel all-purpose pocket knife. You also might want to think of picking up a demo kit...hell, if you are going to do an engineer impression, might as well go with sapper!

 

On your web gear, get some green duct tape and tape down all the metal hardware...J hooks, D buckles, etc...metal hitting metal makes noise and noise is no good = dead engineer. Also, tape down your first-aid/compass pouch.

 

Like F&O said, tape down the flip tops on your canteens. They typically came loose and if not secured got torn off after a while in the field.

 

Get some sort of general purpose knife, ie Kabar or pilots survival knife. They have about a million uses...

 

Depending on the theater you are portraying, (I'm assuming its EUCOM), you may want to invest in the old black leather boots. The jungles didn't work so well in the winter in Europe.

 

Nice job getting the 'Elvis' collared BDU blouse. Definitely a sure sign of the 80's...although I had one issued to me in '92. I think I actually have it somewhere.

 

Now I'm not an Army trooper, but weren't the green t-shirts still standard issue for the Army in the 80's. I want to say that the brown T's didn't come out until the 90's...

 

Your PC, and I can't tell because you have goggles on it (the others have told you to ditch them until you get your helmet so I won't rehash it), should have your rank on the front and name tape on the back.

 

Regarding the helmets, you are probably safe wearing an M1 helmet with BDU woodland or ERDL woodland cover. While the 82nd had the kevlar in '83 (just prior to Grenada), the Rangers only got theirs in early '84. Most of the rest of the Army lagged behind in issuing them and most went to front line units. Engineers would have likely still had the trusty M1. Same goes for the MREs...they were coming on line in '83...but much of the Army was still issuing C-rats out until the mid-80's. If I'm off on my guestimate, I'm sure a few of the 80's dated troopers can tighten up my shot group...

 

Leigh is correct (again). We also used the ground mat inside our sea bags during deployments, but I do remember taking them to the field periodically. When was chilly (but not cold enough for the sleeping bag) and we weren't tactical, we slept on the mat, wrapped in a 'cho liner.

 

Lastly, you are well on your way to having a great impression. You are pretty much at the "I got the basics, now its time to the little details right" stage. Don't get discouraged. You are doing great. Impressions aren't like a kit you buy in a box and it comes with everything. It's a gradual process and you are doing great. Keep it up!

Semper Fidelis,

FR

PS You will find that much of the details and knowledge are not the 'sexy' type that the run of the mill person will pick up on, BUT in many cases, those details and knowledge did one of two (or both) things; 1) made your life easier or 2) kept you alive when you got on the two-way range.

[msgt norway]

here is a picture from usmc in norway:)

 

cheers ken,norway

[flashesandovals]

here is a picture from usmc in norway:)

 

cheers ken,norway

Spot on Ken - pictures never lie!

[Rakkasan187]

The brown t-shirts were worn in the Army when I went in in 84, so they are proper for your display. FR is correct about the C Rations. We field tested MREs in Basic in 84. My first MRE was turkey loaf. Was impressed by the apple jelly, crackers but not too impressed with the turkey.

 

As everyone has mentioned, you are doing fine with your impression. Just need to tighten up a few areas and that will come with reading peoples suggestions on here.

 

Leigh

[flashesandovals]

The brown t-shirts were worn in the Army when I went in in 84, so they are proper for your display. FR is correct about the C Rations. We field tested MREs in Basic in 84. My first MRE was turkey loaf. Was impressed by the apple jelly, crackers but not too impressed with the turkey.

 

As everyone has mentioned, you are doing fine with your impression. Just need to tighten up a few areas and that will come with reading peoples suggestions on here.

 

Leigh

I have a complete box of 12 MRE's dated 1982 with inspection date 1984

 

 

And here's a picture of an 82nd Airborne sniper in Grenada in October 1983 with both a C-rat AND an MRE...

 

 

 

Pascal

[msgt norway]

when it comes to mres,you can use nearly al the brown bag mres

without the large numbers on the side.

-1988 - Large menu numbers added to the sides of the MRE bags

 

but if you are totaly into originality of the mres you should check the menus to..like me

 

keep up the good work!

 

cheers from ken,norway btw Pascal i like your mutt and gear settups!

[Rakkasan187]

Thats great Pascal. I know the MREs were issued in the early 80's to the RDF units (Rapid Deployment Forces) 101st, 82nd, Rangers, ect. They were trying to cut down on the weight of the standard C-rations and use a lighter and better tasting substitute for the C-rations. Rather than turn in the C-rations that were issued to unit supply sections, they decided it best to "exhaust" the supply and then issue the MRE's. In most cases the MRE's did not get to the regular line units until late 1984. The field testing I mentioned that our unit did in 1984 was to determine if Army wide distribution was feasable and to test new menu options. Some of the MREs that we field tested were Ham Slices, Frankfurters and Beans, Spaghetti and Meatballs, Chicken A La King, Beef Stew, Turkey Loaf, Dehydrated pork and Beef patties, and a few others I can't recall. For the most part they were OK. When I was assigned to the 101st in October 1984 my battalion was deployed to Fort Stewart, GA. They were on an RDF exercise. When they returned they turned in all the unused MRE's and they were issued to the next unit who was on RDF standby. (Since the MRE's were a new meal they had not been mass produced in the numbers needed to be distributed Army wide, again the priority going to Rapid Deployment Units. By the end of the year, when we went to the field, we were being issued MRE's but when we returned from the field had to turn in all unopened MRE's. If I recall, it wasn't until early 1985 that we were issued MRE's in larger quantities and we did not have to turn them in.

 

Your display by the way is very impressive. You have worked very hard on capturing the smallest of details, most of which would only have been noticed by Veterans of the that time or veterans of those units. Thank you for sharing.

 

Leigh

[Fender Rhodes]

The picture of the Marines in Norway I believe was before my time. As far as I know, Marines from Camp Lejeune that deployed to Norway in '96, '98 and '98 (of which I was one of), did not wear rank on their watch cap.

 

BTW that looks like a staged photo for the PIO, so they may have done that for the camera.

[101CH47]

You and I must have been at Campbell about the same time. Very interesting thread, brings back a lot of memories.

 

 

 

Your rucksack looks like a small ruck from the pictures. This was the standard issue rucksack in most units in the 80's. When I first arrived at Fort Campbell, I was issued a small rucksack similar to yours. It was very challenging trying to pack all our gear into the small rucksack. A lot of us would buy what was called the "ranger ruck" or large rucksack on the economy. There was a surplus store called "Bricks" outside gate # 4 at Fort Campbell. Some great stuff in that shop, but it burned to the ground in 1986 or 87 and was replaced by the U.S. Cavalry store. I think it too went out of business.

 

[fallout]

Ok I am not an officer or engineer still need to remove the insignias, will rearrange my gear tie down or tape it, get a knife, black caps, I have the m65 in green and woodland, I know they did not take the shelter half and need to move it, waiting on the poncho liner, will get a new IFAK. Nice pictures. On mres, most of the ones I have are 88 and later so I am looking for some from 81-85 menu, also want a pouch stand for collection, thanks all.

[Fender Rhodes]

fallout,

Have you settled on a particular unit that you will be portraying? Knowing that might help the fellas and I in tailoring our responses to your specific impression.

R/

FR

[Fender Rhodes]

And here's a picture of an 82nd Airborne sniper in Grenada in October 1983 with both a C-rat AND an MRE...

 

Pascal,

According to most of my 82nd ABN friends, during the initial stages of Urgent Fury, the bulk of the 82nd landed in Grenada carrying C-rats. The Marines had already been issued MREs and most of them hated those first ones and wanted their C-rats back.

 

Anyway, skipping forward, when 2/325 met up with 2nd Battalion, 8th Marines outside of Ross Point (near St. George's) the two units (at the small unit level) began swapping the two types of rations. The All-Americans wanted to try out the new ration (most were unimpressed) and the Marines wanted their C's back. This also occurred when the 2/505 flew into Pearls Airport to relieve the Marines that were there.

 

The trooper in your picture was a member of 2/505 (LTC Nightingale's boys..."HUBBA, HUBBA...ON TO HAVANA!"). 2/505 can always be ID'ed on Grenada by their scrim/camo covered kevlar helmets (specifically ordered by Nightingale to do that). They were the only unit to do that on the island.

 

It was only after a few days on the island when the 82nd began getting resupplied with pallets of MREs. But almost to a man, the 82nd Grenada vets I have interviewed (currently over 300 of them) stated unequivocally, that they ate their first MREs on Grenada.

Hope this helps with your already excellent impression.

Best,

FR

[fallout]

No unit in particular just a us army soldier in Germany, to be honest I don't even know what units were there.

[Rakkasan187]

Ok I am not an officer or engineer still need to remove the insignias, will rearrange my gear tie down or tape it, get a knife, black caps, I have the m65 in green and woodland, I know they did not take the shelter half and need to move it, waiting on the poncho liner, will get a new IFAK. Nice pictures. On mres, most of the ones I have are 88 and later so I am looking for some from 81-85 menu, also want a pouch stand for collection, thanks all.

 

 

 

Keep in mind that IFAK (Individual First Aid Kit) is a fairly new acronym. If you are portarying an Army Soldier, we did not have these IFAK first aid kits. The Marine Corps had versions of what is attached to your butt pack, so keep that in mind. The only first aid item that a US Soldier carried was the field dressing in the first aid pouch. Some units required that you carry 2, (as was the case with my unit in Berlin) Medics that went to the field with us carried the B5 medical bag. The Combat Lifesaver bags were not really seen until later on in my career.

 

I agree with FR. Pick a unit that you want to do an impression for. Keep in mind though that if you are going to portray an infantryman, the gear will be the same for the most part if you are portarying mechanized infantry or light infantry. There are exceptions and we will be able to guide you for what impression you want to do.

 

Leigh

[fallout]

Is there a place where I can find out what units were in Germany? I would like to do one in berlin 1988 to 1990, a mechanized infantry 1979 to 1983, a light infantry from 1982 to 1988, and a recon from about 1977 to 1984. So I am doing more than one impression, if I find out the units I want to do I will let you know.

[Fender Rhodes]

No unit in particular just a us army soldier in Germany, to be honest I don't even know what units were there.

 

In the 80's you had the following infantry units assigned to Germany:

1ID

3ID

4ID

8ID

There were also several armored divisions (1st, 2nd and 3rd) which had mech infantry elements.

Anyone of them would be a solid choice with plenty of history.

 

Some great background info can be found here: http://www.usarmygermany.com/Sont.htm?http&&&www.usarmygermany.com/units/usareur_divisions.htm

 

Personally, I would say model your LBE on Leigh's pics.

Best,

FR