1980s gear questions

[Rakkasan187]

Did everyone get smoke grenades?

The issuing of smoke grenades was based on SOP. Every unit had a different SOP. In my unit in Berlin smoke grenades were issued to most members of my squad, minus the machine gunners. The smoke grenades were thrown just prior to an assualt on a building to mask our movement. In addition to the smoke grenades, squad leaders, platoon leaders and platoon sergeants also carried star cluster flares. These were used to signal different events during an attack. White, green, red star cluster flares would be launched to shift fires, lift fires, illumination, whatever the task, but again SOP dictated the colors used. You had to be 100% sure you had the correct flare and launched the correct color or it could be a very costly mistake. For example, my squad is preparing to assault an objective. The machine gunners are laying down suppressive fire on the objective. In order for us to move through the objective we need our machine gunners to either lift and shift their fire so we can move through. We launch the color star cluster that we established as the lift fire color and we launch it so the gunners can see it.

 

Leigh

[msgt norway]

the prc 77 in use:

 

 

 

inside medium alice pack

 

cheers ken,norway

[fallout]

Thanks for the help and pictures. Did you still carry/use the mess kit after the introduction of MREs?

[Rakkasan187]

Thanks for the help and pictures. Did you still carry/use the mess kit after the introduction of MREs?

 

 

The mess kit was still part of your CIF (central issue facility) equipment draw, and it was packed in the alert bags but they were not used. The only items used were the mess kit utensils. I carried an extra mess kit spoon in my butt pack and I used it on several occasions. I also kept a few extra MRE spoons after I was done eating. I kept them in my BDU pocket or in the top flap of my ruck sack.

 

The only time the mess kit was seen outside of the alert duffel bag was when it was in a field gear layout inspection, and for then it was for accountability purposes only.

 

I do remember when I was younger in the mid to late 1970's and in Boy Scouts, we spent the weekend with a National Guard unit at Fort Deven's Massachusetts. When the Guard Soldiers fell out for chow in the morning, they had their mess kits and canteen cups. They were served their breakfast in the mess kits. When they were done eating, there was a wash station that consisted of garbage cans full of rinse water, soapy water and then a final rinse water. The Guardsman would dunk their mess kits in each one to wash them off, then they air dryed them. The lunch meal was a C-ration and supper was again a hot meal served in the chow line.

 

Leigh

[fallout]

Thanks for the info. What else would go in the alert bag? Is the alert bag a duffle bag, where was it kept?

[Rakkasan187]

Thanks for the info. What else would go in the alert bag? Is the alert bag a duffle bag, where was it kept?

 

 

Alert bag was the duffel bag and it was placed on top of the wallocker in your room. Depending on the season it has winter or summer gear. In the A bag were spare boots, BDU's, field jacket, t shirts, PT uniform, underwear, winter parka and field pants, mess kit, a set of civilian clothes, extra BDU hats, socks, pile cap, scarf, gloves and glove inserts, toilet items and other items. When there was an alert, these bags were loaded onto one of the company trucks and carried out to the field. When we deployed for training, we lived out of those bags. All of our uniforms and other items were either in the alert bag or carried in our rucksacks. I have taken a lot of pictures of the full field layout of my alert bag. When I have time I will post them so you can see what was carried in the duffel bag.

 

Leigh

[Rakkasan187]

Here is a typical field layout of the contents of the alert bag or duffel bag.

 

 

 

The duffel bag bottom is marked with our tactical markings B CO 6/502 2nd Plt 2 (squad).

 

More pictures to follow.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Rakkasan187]

 

 

These are both the old and new (to that time period) PT uniforms. The top picture shows the new grey uniform and the bottom picture shows the old yellow "banana" suit yellow PT shorts, sweat pants. We also wore the black and yellow reversible PT shirt. We did not do "shirts vs skins" we had yellow vs black. We also had company PT shirts that we were able to wear when we did PT.

[Rakkasan187]

 

 

Another close up of our company PT shirts and personal hygiene towels and running shoes.

[Rakkasan187]

 

 

Shower shoes, socks, brown underwear, BDU pants, both hot weather and cold weather versions, BDU tops, both hot weather and cold weather versions (you could not intermix the two versions, it was either hot weather uniform or cold weather) OPFOR top for aggressor duties and brown T-shirts. On average there were at least 10 to 12 pairs of underwear and T-shirts

[Rakkasan187]

 

 

Another shot of the OPFOR shirt, black gloves with green wool inserts, BDU soft caps, again both winter and summer versions, a brown wool sweater to the right of the T-shirts,

 

Mess kit, knife fork and spoon, shelter half, with tent pegs, poles and rope, crème colored gloves used for rappelling. extra helmet camo band, extra helmet sweat band, handkerchief, shoe shining kit with brush, applicator brush and black shoe polish, pad lock (marked with yellow tape for unit identification), two extra black belts and an extra belt buckle.

 

The shelter half was rolled with the sleeping bag and placed in a waterproof bag and then secured with cargo straps and an H harness strap, aka spaghetti straps.

[Rakkasan187]

 

 

 

Extreme cold weather boots (Mickey Mouse Boots) on the left and my Matterhorn's with Gortex lining. Depending on the season, I would either wear my Matterhorn's or my Green jungle boots. OD Green field pants worn over BDU's in cold weather, suspenders, and to the left, white cotton long underwear. This was way before the polypro long underwear that is issued today.

[Rakkasan187]

 

 

Cold weather parka with liner, trigger finger mittens with trigger finger inserts, wool scarf, pile cap, wool dickie or neck warmer, camo field jacket with liner and black gloves. To the left of the field jacket are two OD green laundry bags

[Rakkasan187]

 

 

An overall view of all the gear and the cold weather parka with hood and liner.

[Rakkasan187]

 

 

The shelter half and sleeping bag laid out prior to rolling both up.

[Rakkasan187]

 

 

The shelter half wrapped on the outside of the sleeping bag, the corners folded in and then the poles, pegs and rope went in the center and it was all rolled up..

 

Once rolled up it was tied with the sleeping bag ties, placed in the water proof bag and then secured with the H harness. If it was to be attached to the bottom of the rucksack then two cargo straps were used to secure the bag to the bottom of the rucksack.

[Rakkasan187]

 

And finally, this is how we used the sleep mat, to form the inside of the duffel bag and we simply packed the gear, boots first and all non-essential gear, parka, pants, and then BDUs and underwear, PT uniform, running shoes and then the bag was ready to be closed and locked, Ready for deployment.

 

That's all for now. More later..

 

Leigh

 

 

[Sgt_Rock_EasyCo]

The waterproof bag was used to wrap up the sleeping bag but also used to line the rucksack. We usually had two waterproof bags inside our rucksacks to keep clothing dry and to wrap up the sleeping bag. We would carry the orange tent pegs and even the tent poles on occasion but I never brought a shelter half to the field except during competetive marches where all gear was taken.

 

During bootcamp we went to the field, set up a tent city and that was the last time I set up a shelter half tent until I started reenacting WWII. I do believe that my shelter half never made it to the field after that even in cold weather climates. Simply put, it was heavy, bulky and easily replaced by the poncho liner as a shelter, or "Hooch" as we called it. Tie paracord to the holes in the poncho liner and then stretch it out, pressing the ties into the ground with the tent pegs, but not too far or they'll be hard to get out. Keep the Hooch low to the ground and prop the middle up by tying a piece of paracord around the hood and stretching it up to a tree branch to create a cavity. Always, always, loop the paracord in a fashion that you can release it quickly by pulling on one string. These hooches were low to the ground, ERDL or Woodland Camoflauge, sturdy enough, and provided excellent cover from the sun and some from bugs. The front for your sector of fire was left open and we even could camoflauge them with with natural foliage. They borke down fast, much faster than any shelter half and could be stowed in your pocket quickly.

 

When we were "mounted", as I was half the time in Berlin, our Jeeps would be parked off the dirt roads and we would tie our poncho's and liners around it and even over it in minutes and break it down even faster. This provided quick camoflauge from the ground and air with almost total coverage. Civilians often walked and ran through the area and would get within 10 to 20 feet and not see our vehicle or us. The thin ERDL/Woodland Camo Poncho Liner and Poncho were miracle devices that are very underrated.

 

The Waterproof bags and poncho were also used in elite unit formations as water sealing flotation tools. Provided you sealed the waterproof bags properly, they would stay buoyant and keep all contents dry. You could seal the hood and place two rucksacks on the poncho and fold it and tie it tightly, then roll that over another poncho and tie that off so that, theoretically , you had a double seal. This was known as the "Poncho Raft" and it was supposed to float- This task was a requirement for graduation from many schools including Recondo School. Improperly sealed rafts often ended up at the bottom of the river and had to be retrieved by the students. Waterlogged rucksacks weigh about 200 pounds apiece

 

Many Ranger and Recondo Students have been bummed out by failing to get this task done. Proper sealing would allow two Troops to use the raft as a flotation device and they could push/swim the raft across or down a body of water. Proper sealing would also keep your contents dry and you could break it down fast enough to continue mission on the other side of the river. Fortunately for me I had practiced it prior to leaving for Recondo School. The heavy green poncho from the Vietnam Era wouldn't work as well as the lightweight poncho. I bought a new poncho for Recondo School just for this one task because one hole in the poncho and you're sunk...literally.

 

Rock

[fallout]

Nice pictures Rakkasan187, and very good info Sgt Rock EasyCo!

[Rakkasan187]

I have taken some more pictures for you to better understand the weapon sling stories. I have taken pictures of a typical M16A1 rifle, common in the 1980's. You will notice in the pictures that the sling is attached to the underside of the weapon. This is great for sling arms and for stacking arms. This method does not provide for a tactical situation.

 

I was issued what was called a "jungle sling" adapter kit for use in Panama. It is the pre cursor of the 3 point sling system that is used today on M4 carbines and other weapons.

 

I have taken pictures as to how this "jungle adapter" can be used and mounted on the top side of the weapon to provide for tactical comfort and practicality. I kept the standard black web M16 sling on the underside, and for the top tactical mount I used an M60 Machine gun sling. This sling was preferred and used by most Soldier's due to the thick padded portion.

 

You will also notice a green cord on the underside. This is a lanyard or "dummy cord". This was used to attach your weapon to your web gear so it would be secured. During an Air Assault, your weapon had to be tied to you so it would not fall out of the helicopter, (which, yes it has happened). Also the First Sergeant likes to go around at night when you are sleeping to see how many weapons are not secured..

 

As you can see by the pictures, the sling mount under the weapon really does not give you many tactical options..

 

The last picture is the "jungle adapter" kit..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Rakkasan187]

 

Top picture is a close up of the metal ring attachment that mounts on the front sight triangle. Some Soldiers would use tape but that would become heated and melt and would be very hard to clean and your weapon had to be spotless when you turned it in to the arms room.

 

 

This piece of nylon web was looped through the butt stock on the rear of the weapon. It did not interfere with the charging handle, but some would claim it did. You had to adjust the sling so it was not too tight. If you did make it too tight then it would possibly interfere with the charging handle

 

 

Last 2 pictures are the standard M60 machine gun sling. I have even seen this sling issued to the M203 grenadiers..

 

[Rakkasan187]

 

More details of the front sight post and how the metal ring would loop through the post

 

 

[Rakkasan187]

 

Once the ring is fed through the front post, simply take the M60 sling and adjust and feed the web strap through and adjust. Once it adjusted pull tight. This can be readjusted for comfort with ease.

 

 

[Rakkasan187]

 

The rear strap has a loop that feeds through it self once you wrap it around the butt stock.

 

 

Now with the plastic d ring secured around the butt stock, you simply feed the other end of the M60 sling through the web strap and make you adjustments. You may have to adjust it a few times to get the weapon where it does not hang to low on your body, by now tactically your weapon can be carried in a comfortable and ready firing position, without the bottom sling getting in the way or making it difficult to ready your weapon for engagement.

 

 

 

 

[Rakkasan187]

Normally you would remove the sling from the underside of the weapon and store it in your rucksack. Different units had different SOP's as far as turning the weapons in with the slings on them or not. In all the units I was assigned to, when we went to the arms room to draw our weapons out, we first drew our weapons and then we were given the sling, blank adapter and bayonet. It was up to you to attach all the stuff to your weapon.

 

The reason for the issuing of the weapons without slings, was that everyone had adjusted the slings to their size and comfort. The arms room weapon racks were small and in some cases it was very difficult to close the locking bar with the slings on the weapons so the armorers in each unit decided if they wanted the slings on or not. In my case, they always wanted them removed.

 

So, I hope this answers your question about the slings. This is just "A Method" not the method of adapting your weapon to the tactical environment. Rock of Easy Co, has also provided some solid information. Even though he and I served within the same Brigade at the same time, his unit SOP and my unit SOP were different.

 

Hope this helps you understand that before the 3 point sling, this is what some Grunts like myself did..

 

Leigh