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USMC WWII "Frogskin" Covers - Rethinking The Norm


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JerryTheGerman
On 4/29/2020 at 3:20 PM, Bugme said:

Not to distract but, the sharpie Sgt. stripes look pretty authentic too. You got the collectors who say: "That was never done". And here you got a period pic saying: "Uh, yeah, it was done."

Speaking of this, I was watching a Tarawa film of the corpsman on the beach and I believe I have proof sergeant stripes were used even earlier than Iwo and Okinawa! 

A600E645-8E2E-4729-B515-351E5C31A27F.jpeg

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On 6/25/2021 at 7:16 PM, iron bender said:

This Marine is Evangelo Clonis. They made a USPS stamp of another image of him. I've been to his bar in Santa Fe

I think this has been discussed on USMF before, but this man has been convincingly re-indentified as Thomas Ellis Underwood.  This link is to a series of very interesting articles on the subject:

 

https://1-24thmarines.com/research/the-weary-warrior/

 

 

619435993_USMCSAIPANMARINE-Copy.jpg.d1339cd3c829ca20705543f85b360ec2.jpg

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8 hours ago, GMPETE said:

I think this has been discussed on USMF before, but this man has been convincingly re-indentified as Thomas Ellis Underwood.  This link is to a series of very interesting articles on the subject:

 

https://1-24thmarines.com/research/the-weary-warrior/

 

 

619435993_USMCSAIPANMARINE-Copy.jpg.d1339cd3c829ca20705543f85b360ec2.jpg

Very interesting read. I concur. Not Klonis. I guess research would have helped on my part. Guess I just always believed the story. Thanks for the update! Jordan

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I'd also like to add that the interwebs has been an excellent resource over the last 20+ years for proving and disproving images from WW2. The Suribachi flag raising comes to mind. I'll also add Mr. Underwood and I share the identical scar under our right eye!😄

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54 minutes ago, iron bender said:

I'd also like to add that the interwebs has been an excellent resource over the last 20+ years for proving and disproving images from WW2. The Suribachi flag raising comes to mind. I'll also add Mr. Underwood and I share the identical scar under our right eye!😄

You were right to name him though. He’s been mis-ID’d as Klonis for so long I think most everyone had accepted it as correct.  1stbattion24thmarines did a beautiful job straightening it out.  Lots of slitted cover shots there as well.

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I think this is a great image, I’ve added the video that you can find on YouTube with the exact time.

 

I couldn’t see any slots on 2 of the covers 

 

- Dean

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pump 150

I'm adding these two documents into this thread as they seem to pertain to new information learned concerning USMC helmet cover production during a previously unknown timeframe of the 1950's. 

 

Here on page 732 - from February 11, 1955 in testimony during Congressional Hearings for the Budget of fiscal year 1956 (July 1955-June 1956), an increase in funding is noted under "Procurement And Maintenance Of Advanced Base Components".  The reply back for the direct increase of funds includes - "This specifically is to procure rifle grenade launchers and camouflage helmet covers, in order to fill the mobilization requirement for these advance base components."

 

What type of helmet cover or "model" is not known, or if these were made by an outside private source instead of the USMC Depot of Supply, or total numbers produced.  It's surely documented somewhere to be researched further and revealed in the future.  However, it does seem to open the door that the USMC camouflage helmet cover timeline of production as known by collectors in the past needs to be questioned with a possibility of them being produced during the Korean War period or later by the USMC Depot of Supply or another outside source beyond what is currently known and thought to be accurate.  

 

277982756_HELMETCOVER1955-19565.PNG.2cd9d949ae97b6f7de338ea0b37ce80b.PNG

 

1834138055_HELMETCOVERPRODUCTION1955-1956-Copy.PNG.8443f8ba442766fcae4f989694600ef7.PNG

 

 

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Great find of info. Fiscal year of 1956 will be July 1 1955 to June 30, 1956. Since no examples with that date have been found made by a contracted company they were either made by the Depot or not made at all.

 

Since this is open debate discussion before Congress funding could have been denied. I'll have to see if my Annual Reports cover this year and reflect any changers like this

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24 minutes ago, Alec said:

Great find of info. Fiscal year of 1956 will be July 1 1955 to June 30, 1956. Since no examples with that date have been found made by a contracted company they were either made by the Depot or not made at all.

 

Since this is open debate discussion before Congress funding could have been denied. I'll have to see if my Annual Reports cover this year and reflect any changers like this


Thanks Alec, 

 

I knew you would be a good one to first be able to investigate this with your research, much appreciated. Mine continues as well.

 

In case you did not see this one I posted earlier, it also shows a 1953 hearing with General Hill explaining Depot production during the Korean War period and prior on 60% of clothing still being made at the Depot.  Also quickly explaining private vendors, problems encountered, and inspectors needed. 
 

I brought both of these up so to show the continued large scale Depot production during the Korean War, with a possibility of Korean wartime helmet cover production potentially worth further investigation since the WWII Depot made were unmarked.  Though viewed 400 times, no one touched that one with a ten foot pole! ….LOL

 

 

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On 6/29/2021 at 3:01 AM, ArchangelDM said:

With the use of advanced photo enhancement I could not see any slits. 

96B3A249-0D82-4F4B-AC64-2CFF84C9F991.jpeg

 

The addition of the rubber inner tube band would also indicate possibly no slits as the purpose of the band would to be to secure camoflage material if needed. I recall the bands were first seen in Iwo? any others seen prior? 

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ArchangelDM
3 minutes ago, doyler said:

 

The addition of the rubber inner tube band would also indicate possibly no slits as the purpose of the band would to be to secure camoflage material if needed. I recall the bands were first seen in Iwo? any others seen prior? 


Makes sense to me - funny enough I have a whole grouping to a forward observer that was on Iwo Jima. 
whole rig is filthy with black like dust and dirt, 

All his combat gear came out of his belongings and it’s UNIS marked. 
Helmet has a non slit cover and is named to him, his last battle was Iwo Jima 

 

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pump 150
6 hours ago, doyler said:

 

The addition of the rubber inner tube band would also indicate possibly no slits as the purpose of the band would to be to secure camoflage material if needed. I recall the bands were first seen in Iwo? any others seen prior? 

 

That's a good thought doyler, and the use of inner tube bands themselves I've looked into.  So far anyway, I've only seen these worn by those of the 3rd Marine Division on Iwo Jima as a more unit based type, Specifically 3-21 and 2-9 Marines.  If anyone else can confirm their use more, than please add for us to learn.

 

As for the bands used specifically due to the no-slit cover, I'm not sure.  Iwo itself was known as not vegetation heavy compared to other assaults, with most covers seen worn Brownside out to reflect that fact.  And there are photos of Marines wearing the bands with the slitted covers.  But, more to research and learn...LOL.  I have not noticed the bands worn heavily later on Okinawa which was much more known as a Greenside out cover use with heavier vegetation.

 

Any others with info, corrections, or more photos feel free to add.

 

3/21 Marines, they are all wearing Greenside out -

 

3-21_Marines_crawling_forward_under_fire_at_Airfield_2_Iwo_Jima_24feb.jpg.4efc443fd35a1cb2add1cd4fc2aa9f68.jpg

 

865265224_3-21_Marines_Fighting_For_Airfield_2_on_Iwo_Jima_24feb-Copy.jpg.b3b22fb56d06a9f95e9897fdd02c608b.jpg

 

2/9 Marines, they wear Brownside out -

 

708482331_2-9marinesiwo.jpg.c9077d0791ba2421c2c86ae7956b3d48.jpg

 

446850604_2-9marines4.jpg.72d0244d7cd10cc6431df79a507e9035.jpg

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