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USMC WWII "Frogskin" Covers - Rethinking The Norm


pump 150
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  • 4 weeks later...

As always Pump 150 you give a common sense answer. However, the slit/no split arguement will not end until someone is satisfied with photographic proof. Oh wait, they don't even believe that since we saw photographic proof of swivel loops in use in Normandy days after the invasion but, they still don't believe it.

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While the helmet linked to the veteran from Okinawa certainly shows the most promise of a no-slit helmet cover in use, IMHO the video footage is nowhere near clear enough to determine conclusively if any of those are truly 1st Model due to how difficult it is to see the foliage slits as already demonstrated in the past due to picture quality.

 

During the inspection segment it is difficult to even fully determine where many of the large crown pleats are let alone foliage slits. The one close up of what appears to be the officer in charge actually does have visible foliage slits. There are six within the shot, however only three are readily visible due to picture quality.

 

post-98601-0-34060900-1533850241_thumb.jpeg

 

 

The same marine shown in the post directly above inbound on the Amtrac labeled as a no-slit with head turned slightly more showing the foliage slits now visible. Same here with six in the frame however only three easily seen due to picture quality.

 

post-98601-0-88038200-1533850254_thumb.jpeg

 

I am as interested as anyone here to find the truth and look forward to posting any documents or a great picture of a 1st Model in use on Bougainville or any other location during WWII if I find any (Im still searching). However with what has been already determined in this thread with the continued help of many, we all have to be careful on what we label as fact either way with picture quality issues as have already been stressed many times. It is how the hobby became focused for many years, and how the 1st Model got its name in the first place.... Just my humble opinion.

 

Pump 150

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While the helmet linked to the veteran from Okinawa certainly shows the most promise of a no-slit helmet cover in use, IMHO the video footage is nowhere near clear enough to determine conclusively if any of those are truly 1st Model due to how difficult it is to see the foliage slits as already demonstrated in the past due to picture quality.

 

During the inspection segment it is difficult to even fully determine where many of the large crown pleats are let alone foliage slits. The one close up of what appears to be the officer in charge actually does have visible foliage slits. There are six within the shot, however only three are readily visible due to picture quality.

 

422CE2A7-D05F-4869-A3F9-51118327756B.jpeg

 

 

The same marine shown in the post directly above inbound on the Amtrac labeled as a no-slit with head turned slightly more showing the foliage slits now visible. Same here with six in the frame however only three easily seen due to picture quality.

 

D07FB8DD-410C-4DF0-82DA-EE00922A6852.jpeg

 

I am as interested as anyone here to find the truth and look forward to posting any documents or a great picture of a 1st Model in use on Bougainville or any other location during WWII if I find any (Im still searching). However with what has been already determined in this thread with the continued help of many, we all have to be careful on what we label as fact either way with picture quality issues as have already been stressed many times. It is how the hobby became focused for many years, and how the 1st Model got its name in the first place.... Just my humble opinion.

 

Pump 150

 

Pump my search will continue as I go through hours of footage - I also agree the Okinawa Vets helmet is a fascinating piece.

 

Dean

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  • 5 months later...

Finally a decent photo of a non slit being used on Iwo

IMHO

 

- Dean

 

 

WW II Photo WW 2 World War Two

Description:Corporal E. Bjurhardt of the 5th Division of the US Marine Corps with a kitten on Iwo Jima

post-8861-0-82427900-1547465696.jpeg

post-8861-0-46457100-1547465703_thumb.jpeg

post-8861-0-90288400-1547465710.jpeg

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Hello Dean, this marine's helmet cover does have the foliage slits as per the 9-42 specifications as shown below in the original high resolution example, and an additional side photo.

 

post-98601-0-76121600-1547482406.jpg

 

post-98601-0-39687100-1547482431.png

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Fascinating forum. The thing that's making the picture proof that much harder is that when these covers were new it was probably much more difficult to make out the foliage slits.

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m1a2u2,

 

You are correct as very possibly shown here as well. I did not outline this one at first as it was not totally clear and still might be questionable without the second photo. However, as the two sides are symmetrical there should be another foliage slit on the left side in a somewhat similar close location as the right front. As shown by the orange circle near the top of the fold.

 

post-98601-0-82008900-1547505112.png

 

Comparing to the original shown picture this looks like a tightly sewn slit which has not opened as of yet. This is also in proper line and same approximate size with the one at left.

 

post-98601-0-08287200-1547504998.jpg

 

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Hello Dean, this marine's helmet cover does have the foliage slits as per the 9-42 specifications as shown below in the original high resolution example, and an additional side photo.

 

USMC-IWO-JIMA-CAT-5-compressor.jpg

 

USMC-IWO-JIMA-CAT-2---Copy-compressor.png

 

Spot on Pump

My tired eyes missed that -

 

- Dean

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I wonder if there are any photographs of Marines with these Non-slitted covers in China, 1946.

 

Frogskin7,

 

That is a very good question and one that I have looked into in the past, which actually opens another door in the helmet cover's story. While it is common to see members of the 1st Marine Provisional Brigade with bare helmets in 1944 and later, by 1945 it was rather strange to not see a helmet cover on a marine as it was so much a part of their uniform during combat operations.

 

There are photos showing marines training in late 1945 for the still presumed upcoming invasion of Japan. While some in the series do have bare helmets, most have helmet covers. These appear to be the 9-42 spec type worn on Guam, dated August 1945......

 

post-98601-0-32116400-1547585420_thumb.jpg

 

post-98601-0-23349400-1547585439_thumb.jpg

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In the same month as Japan surrendered and quick action was taken to gather forces for the occupation of Japan, there is a stark difference seen by marines taking part in both Japan and China due to the lack of the helmet cover. While some could not have had a cover, all forces landing and taking part use bare helmets. I do not know why, but there has to be a reason and written info someplace for their removal with their sudden disappearance I would think. Here in Japan.....

 

post-98601-0-95275900-1547587263_thumb.jpg

 

post-98601-0-49642400-1547587279_thumb.jpg

 

post-98601-0-11623000-1547587305_thumb.jpg

 

 

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And here in China.

 

post-98601-0-78533200-1547587774_thumb.jpg

 

post-98601-0-63723100-1547587880_thumb.png

 

If anyone knows exactly why the helmet cover was removed please let us know. For how this impacts production and seeing the models in service is only speculative at this point as the helmet cover can be found worn stateside during the late 1940's with the downsized force.

 

However, it seems during the occupation of both Japan and China they were not continued to be shipped overseas. I would suspect due to cost as not needed any more for an occupying force. If anyone has some photos of marines wearing the helmet cover during occupation duty please add.

 

If possibly the no foliage slit helmet cover was a late war produced item, it possibly may have mostly went straight from factory to supply storage with the end of the war like many items. This would account for why so many no-slit "First Model" are documented being worn later in Korea and well into the final use of the Frogskin helmet cover during the early 1960's.

 

Just some thoughts...any comments are welcome.

 

 

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Moonlight Gecko

What do you think about these covers? I believe 3rd marine division on Iwo Jima. Of the three standing, two could be non slit patterns. Has anyone seen a higher resolution photo of this? Also interesting that they are using some Army canteens, Corpsman rates stencilled on sleeves of two kneeling, and Tactical mark on the box on the bottom right.

post-339-0-52543000-1547607812_thumb.jpg

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IMHO, the photo detail here is not enough to fully determine either way. However, certainly a great choice to find the original high res if possible for further inspection.

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IMHO, the photo detail here is not enough to fully determine either way. However, certainly a great choice to find the original high res if possible for further inspection.

Agreed, you can barely make out some of the lighter camo shades.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Came across this scene of the documentary by the History Channel in HD about the fighting on Tarawa.

 

At about 17:49 Minutes you can see this Marine possible wearing a non-slit pattern Cover.

The picture is not in HD since I watched in on my mobile phone.

 

What do you mean?

 

Heres the link:

 

Greetings

Blueprint

post-180902-0-01266500-1549526870_thumb.jpeg

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