ArchangelDM Posted July 10, 2018 Share #301 Posted July 10, 2018 Fantastic documentary showing the non slit covers in use. These marines are on there way to Okinawa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchangelDM Posted July 10, 2018 Share #302 Posted July 10, 2018 Here is the full video Really great material and some super shots of the covers Dean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchangelDM Posted August 6, 2018 Share #303 Posted August 6, 2018 Here is an amazing thread with a non slit cover used on Okinawa https://www.al.com/living/index.ssf/2015/05/after_a_bullet_rattled_around.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugme Posted August 6, 2018 Share #304 Posted August 6, 2018 As always Pump 150 you give a common sense answer. However, the slit/no split arguement will not end until someone is satisfied with photographic proof. Oh wait, they don't even believe that since we saw photographic proof of swivel loops in use in Normandy days after the invasion but, they still don't believe it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchangelDM Posted August 9, 2018 Share #305 Posted August 9, 2018 Here is another photo on Okinawa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchangelDM Posted August 9, 2018 Share #306 Posted August 9, 2018 Both have the non slit covers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pump 150 Posted August 9, 2018 Author Share #307 Posted August 9, 2018 While the helmet linked to the veteran from Okinawa certainly shows the most promise of a no-slit helmet cover in use, IMHO the video footage is nowhere near clear enough to determine conclusively if any of those are truly 1st Model due to how difficult it is to see the foliage slits as already demonstrated in the past due to picture quality. During the inspection segment it is difficult to even fully determine where many of the large crown pleats are let alone foliage slits. The one close up of what appears to be the officer in charge actually does have visible foliage slits. There are six within the shot, however only three are readily visible due to picture quality. The same marine shown in the post directly above inbound on the Amtrac labeled as a no-slit with head turned slightly more showing the foliage slits now visible. Same here with six in the frame however only three easily seen due to picture quality. I am as interested as anyone here to find the truth and look forward to posting any documents or a great picture of a 1st Model in use on Bougainville or any other location during WWII if I find any (Im still searching). However with what has been already determined in this thread with the continued help of many, we all have to be careful on what we label as fact either way with picture quality issues as have already been stressed many times. It is how the hobby became focused for many years, and how the 1st Model got its name in the first place.... Just my humble opinion. Pump 150 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchangelDM Posted August 10, 2018 Share #308 Posted August 10, 2018 While the helmet linked to the veteran from Okinawa certainly shows the most promise of a no-slit helmet cover in use, IMHO the video footage is nowhere near clear enough to determine conclusively if any of those are truly 1st Model due to how difficult it is to see the foliage slits as already demonstrated in the past due to picture quality. During the inspection segment it is difficult to even fully determine where many of the large crown pleats are let alone foliage slits. The one close up of what appears to be the officer in charge actually does have visible foliage slits. There are six within the shot, however only three are readily visible due to picture quality. 422CE2A7-D05F-4869-A3F9-51118327756B.jpeg The same marine shown in the post directly above inbound on the Amtrac labeled as a no-slit with head turned slightly more showing the foliage slits now visible. Same here with six in the frame however only three easily seen due to picture quality. D07FB8DD-410C-4DF0-82DA-EE00922A6852.jpeg I am as interested as anyone here to find the truth and look forward to posting any documents or a great picture of a 1st Model in use on Bougainville or any other location during WWII if I find any (Im still searching). However with what has been already determined in this thread with the continued help of many, we all have to be careful on what we label as fact either way with picture quality issues as have already been stressed many times. It is how the hobby became focused for many years, and how the 1st Model got its name in the first place.... Just my humble opinion. Pump 150 Pump my search will continue as I go through hours of footage - I also agree the Okinawa Vets helmet is a fascinating piece. Dean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchangelDM Posted January 14, 2019 Share #309 Posted January 14, 2019 Finally a decent photo of a non slit being used on Iwo IMHO - Dean WW II Photo WW 2 World War Two Description:Corporal E. Bjurhardt of the 5th Division of the US Marine Corps with a kitten on Iwo Jima Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pump 150 Posted January 14, 2019 Author Share #310 Posted January 14, 2019 Hello Dean, this marine's helmet cover does have the foliage slits as per the 9-42 specifications as shown below in the original high resolution example, and an additional side photo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m1a2u2 Posted January 14, 2019 Share #311 Posted January 14, 2019 Fascinating forum. The thing that's making the picture proof that much harder is that when these covers were new it was probably much more difficult to make out the foliage slits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pump 150 Posted January 14, 2019 Author Share #312 Posted January 14, 2019 m1a2u2, You are correct as very possibly shown here as well. I did not outline this one at first as it was not totally clear and still might be questionable without the second photo. However, as the two sides are symmetrical there should be another foliage slit on the left side in a somewhat similar close location as the right front. As shown by the orange circle near the top of the fold. Comparing to the original shown picture this looks like a tightly sewn slit which has not opened as of yet. This is also in proper line and same approximate size with the one at left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frogskin7 Posted January 15, 2019 Share #313 Posted January 15, 2019 I wonder if there are any photographs of Marines with these Non-slitted covers in China, 1946. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchangelDM Posted January 15, 2019 Share #314 Posted January 15, 2019 Hello Dean, this marine's helmet cover does have the foliage slits as per the 9-42 specifications as shown below in the original high resolution example, and an additional side photo. USMC-IWO-JIMA-CAT-5-compressor.jpg USMC-IWO-JIMA-CAT-2---Copy-compressor.png Spot on Pump My tired eyes missed that - - Dean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pump 150 Posted January 15, 2019 Author Share #315 Posted January 15, 2019 I wonder if there are any photographs of Marines with these Non-slitted covers in China, 1946. Frogskin7, That is a very good question and one that I have looked into in the past, which actually opens another door in the helmet cover's story. While it is common to see members of the 1st Marine Provisional Brigade with bare helmets in 1944 and later, by 1945 it was rather strange to not see a helmet cover on a marine as it was so much a part of their uniform during combat operations. There are photos showing marines training in late 1945 for the still presumed upcoming invasion of Japan. While some in the series do have bare helmets, most have helmet covers. These appear to be the 9-42 spec type worn on Guam, dated August 1945...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pump 150 Posted January 15, 2019 Author Share #316 Posted January 15, 2019 In the same month as Japan surrendered and quick action was taken to gather forces for the occupation of Japan, there is a stark difference seen by marines taking part in both Japan and China due to the lack of the helmet cover. While some could not have had a cover, all forces landing and taking part use bare helmets. I do not know why, but there has to be a reason and written info someplace for their removal with their sudden disappearance I would think. Here in Japan..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pump 150 Posted January 15, 2019 Author Share #317 Posted January 15, 2019 And here in China. If anyone knows exactly why the helmet cover was removed please let us know. For how this impacts production and seeing the models in service is only speculative at this point as the helmet cover can be found worn stateside during the late 1940's with the downsized force. However, it seems during the occupation of both Japan and China they were not continued to be shipped overseas. I would suspect due to cost as not needed any more for an occupying force. If anyone has some photos of marines wearing the helmet cover during occupation duty please add. If possibly the no foliage slit helmet cover was a late war produced item, it possibly may have mostly went straight from factory to supply storage with the end of the war like many items. This would account for why so many no-slit "First Model" are documented being worn later in Korea and well into the final use of the Frogskin helmet cover during the early 1960's. Just some thoughts...any comments are welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlight Gecko Posted January 16, 2019 Share #318 Posted January 16, 2019 What do you think about these covers? I believe 3rd marine division on Iwo Jima. Of the three standing, two could be non slit patterns. Has anyone seen a higher resolution photo of this? Also interesting that they are using some Army canteens, Corpsman rates stencilled on sleeves of two kneeling, and Tactical mark on the box on the bottom right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlight Gecko Posted January 16, 2019 Share #319 Posted January 16, 2019 close up of covers. Middle helmet cover definitely has slits. What about the ones on the right and left? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlight Gecko Posted January 16, 2019 Share #320 Posted January 16, 2019 closer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlight Gecko Posted January 16, 2019 Share #321 Posted January 16, 2019 close up of other cover Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pump 150 Posted January 16, 2019 Author Share #322 Posted January 16, 2019 IMHO, the photo detail here is not enough to fully determine either way. However, certainly a great choice to find the original high res if possible for further inspection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchangelDM Posted January 16, 2019 Share #323 Posted January 16, 2019 Love that neoprene tyre band ! Incredible photo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m1a2u2 Posted January 17, 2019 Share #324 Posted January 17, 2019 IMHO, the photo detail here is not enough to fully determine either way. However, certainly a great choice to find the original high res if possible for further inspection. Agreed, you can barely make out some of the lighter camo shades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueprint Posted February 7, 2019 Share #325 Posted February 7, 2019 Came across this scene of the documentary by the History Channel in HD about the fighting on Tarawa. At about 17:49 Minutes you can see this Marine possible wearing a non-slit pattern Cover. The picture is not in HD since I watched in on my mobile phone. What do you mean? Heres the link: Greetings Blueprint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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