USMC WWII "Frogskin" Covers - Rethinking The Norm

[Schnicklfritz]

This pic shows the edge stitching. All the sewing details match the other USMC covers that I have 100%. Just the cloth is different. I haven't heard it mentioned of anyone with one that is made with both sides of twilled cloth. The two mentioned have one side twilled and the other side USMC HBT.

[Schnicklfritz]

The typical double needle chain stitch attaching both halves together here.

[Schnicklfritz]

Last but not least, the other side being made of USMC HBT cloth. Enjoy!

[pump 150]

Very interesting! Hopefully someone has some other examples to compare, or additional info. Thanks for sharing

[sgtdorango]

Very interesting indeed!......mike

[pump 150]

Note - All the photos shown here are downsized in order to fit, and it will take a few posts to complete.

 

At the time of writing this thread four years ago the general feeling within the collecting community was that the USMC 1st Model no button-hole foliage slit helmet cover was indeed the first produced type and used during the early years of WWII with the later 2nd & 3rd models with foliage slits arriving a bit later, say 44-45 as they were added into the production cycle.

This generalization was caused primarily due to photos that were available at the time in the history books and online during the early years of the home computer with collectors determining the specific model numbers themselves which helped in the story, along with what was provided in the early editions of the “go to” helmet and gear books. I, like most all others believed this as well from what I saw.

A photo specifically listed as a 1st Model use on Peleliu in Mark Reynosa’s fine book has been found not to be the case once the original was discovered (Page 7, Post 163). For those authors of the time who did their very best with what was available I give great credit and respect to for spurring a whole new generation of collectors and would be historians, myself included. To all of them I say thank you.

As new and better quality photos began to be released over time to the public they appeared to show the exact opposite of what the collecting theory on production cycle was based on, hence the original purpose of this thread, try to show that USMC helmet covers with the foliage slits were produced and used from the very beginning of WWII.

Many more great quality photos have surfaced since this began, especially early WWII use of the USMC helmet cover which for me personally has done nothing but strengthen the case that helmet covers produced as shown in the September 1942 dated specifications were among the very first made and used in combat, along with being by far the most used type of WWII. The quest has actually changed now to find the same type quality photos of the so called “1st Model” in use during the same period.

It must be remembered that knowing the particulars of the helmet cover’s construction and quality of the photo are paramount in helping to try and determine what you are looking at. I have seen many pics that are said to be 1st Models because the slits don’t appear to show where they should. For the younger collectors, you need to look how the cover was applied to the shell. When the crown fold is way forward or back the slits will run almost diagonally and not be where we assume they should. Anything other than a crystal-clear photo is a possible unknown in my opinion as they are so hard to determine at times…again just my opinion….in order to determine the 1st Model’s true use

This thread has been blessed with many new and never seen images and documents shared freely which is greatly appreciated, including for the first time a glimpse of where these were produced provided by forum member Alec. It was stated that picture quality in WWII was not as well defined as later wars. Over time I have found this not to be entirely true as we just never have seen the full quality before. This picture from the National Archives supplied by member dustin is still the earliest specific dated picture of a production WWII USMC HBT Frogskin helmet cover I have found. It is dated November 1942, just two months after the specification drawing date and is made with slits as called for in the specs.

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/245129-usmc-slit-helmet-cover/

 

 

[pump 150]

close up of the cover

 

[pump 150]

Many new or clearer photos have emerged from the first use of the helmet cover during the changeover period from burlap and nets to the approved helmet cover that clearly show the 9-42 spec cover in use. These should have been the first made off the production line and rushed to the front I would think. From Bougainville late 43-early 44 -

[pump 150]

Listed as Bougainville Jan 1944 -

 

[pump 150]

Some of the photos shown in the beginning of this thread and labeled as very possible 1st Models have been found not to be the case as mentioned before in the Norman Hatch photo from Tarawa (Page 9, Post 214). Some originals of those I originally posted have been found as well (Page 1, Post 16).

[pump 150]

Tarawa in November 1943 was always assumed to be a great show point for the 1st Model’s use from available photos in books and early seen online, however many new high-quality photos have emerged since this thread started which only confirms the 9-42 spec use again as the most used type. Every helmet cover here has foliage slits –

 

 

 

 

As stated before, I would never discount a grouping or helmet described as being directly acquired from a vet or family with any type of cover until full documentation is found and made public, and there are a few that have been shown from the Marianas Campaign.

Some corrections here for me are from two I described on Peleliu (Page 4, Posts 94-97). Described then as very possible 1st Model use I would have to say the landing craft photo is just not clear enough for me to say 100% at this point, and looking harder at the AA gun crew I now believe the member at far left does indeed have slits in the cover, just my opinion. The helmet cover shown on Guam (Page 7, Posts 145-175) looks good but just not enough showing for 100% for me either.

Also, the theory tossed around about the dropping of the slits on large-scale production for the upcoming invasion for Japan was mine. A theory only to try and tie in possible late war reasoning for speeding up /reduce cost as it has happened in the past during a short time in helmet cover production during Desert Shield/Desert Storm. Just thinking out loud there.

The 1st model could very well have been made early on in the war, however as more and more high-quality photos are encountered the 1942 spec. models with foliage slits just keep showing up everywhere. For me, Iwo Jima in 1945 shows the best chance of a good quality photo in use so far for the 1st Model in photographs from WWII. That doesn’t mean they weren’t used earlier, just that a high-quality photo has not been found to my knowledge like the others. If you are looking for great clear photos of the 1st Model in large scale field use then Korea is still the place to find them in large numbers.

Due to the photo evidence, large numbers used post WWII, and their still availability compared to the other models, I still believe that the 1st model is a later WWII produced item at this time, but the true answer is out there somewhere and I would be happy to be proved wrong if it can be defined for sure with a really clear photo or documentation. An entire step in the construction process was deleted for some reason at some point. A mistake is the looped and sawtooth edge stitching found on the wrong sides, I have one like that, but the deletion of the foliage slits on thousands of helmet covers does not happen without documentation in my opinion and it is out there to be found.

As the one who started this thing I would like to thank all of those who have and continue to take part, who willing share new information, and conduct themselves in a mature and focused manner. In an era on this forum where nearly any topic over two pages requires Administration babysitting because someone gets their panties all bunched up for some stupid reason it has been nice to see.

This thread is always open to anyone who is interested in discussing the topic at hand, ask opinions, and give differing points of view for discussion until everyone is either talked out or final documentation is found in the same manner as before. So feel free, but leave your attitude and resume at the front door before entering and pressing the reply button please. Thank you

 

​pump 150

[pump 150]

Another update that I ran across just this evening to a really good photo that I posted earlier in this thread as the best possibility so far found of a no buttonhole foliage slit helmet cover being worn during WWII, here on Iwo Jima (Page 4, Posts 99-100).

 

 

 

[pump 150]

Here is a crop from the true original which shows just a bit more of the side of the helmet cover. This can now positively be identified as a 9-42 spec type cover with the foliage slits as can be seen next to the right border.

 

Just as another example on how hard it is to pick out the foliage slits in these photographs, this photo is just a little bit clearer and darker in tone which reveals a second foliage slit high on the cover about straight up from this marine's nose in the space between the patterns next to the center sewn seam. This second slit was always there in the first copy as well, just not visible due to brightness of the photo.

 

I know this one has been copied quite a bit and used as the best chance of a good 1st Model in use, me included, but wanted to update so as to be completely accurate for everyone's benefit.

 

[doyler]

Wanted to add this photo to the discussion from Grunt Gear by member Alec Tulkoff.

 

The photo is on page 39 of his book and states the picture is from 1942 when the camouflage suits were being tested at Quantico Virginia.Photo is credited to the Marine Corps University Archives

 

Here we see foliage being inserted into slits.You can see the center seam of the helmet cover just off the shoulder of the Marine.

 

I guess it could be argued that the slots are"hand cut" but I feel this shows slots during the trials and that the document for the cover posted follow this trial for camouflage.

 

Also I do have a cover with out slots that have them hand cut.I cant say when it was actually done....WW2,Korea,or Vietnam era.It did come on a helmet but not from a veteran.I purchased it at a fleamarket and the seller had no info on it and didn't even know it was Marine Corps issue camo cover.To me a helmet with a cover that is original to the helmet from the war or a WW2 veteran is pretty rare in my thinking.Just due to the nature of of the item.It can be removed and replaced.With many helmets and cover set ups one will really never know if it was collector added,movie prop house useage etc.Much like liners get switched around over the years or added to shells I'm guessing the same for the camo covers.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[doyler]

Caption from page 39 GRUNT GEAR

 

[pump 150]

Thanks for adding here doyler, great pictures from the book. There is little doubt that an attempt to add camouflage in some way to the helmet was of a concern during development of the new uniform. I added the photos in my update of a couple days ago specifically off what was generally felt in the past on early war use and Mr. Tulkoff's post on Page 3, Post 61.

 

By June of 42 the Commandant had already approved adoption and manufacturing and was setting Issuance requirements. 1 per individual with a 15% replenishment (dated June 27, 1942).

A November document from the Quartermaster stated that "10,000 camo helmet covers are being prepared for shipment to the Third Marine Division." Numbers were not given, but the 2nd Division was listed as being in line to receive covers as well.

​Although many would be seen within months of each other as the island campaigns took off hard, besides New Georgia in mid 1943 the 3rd on Bougainville and the 2nd on Tarawa were among the first use these on a large scale I believe in November 1943. Although covers with and without slits may have been produced at the same time, to date when a good clean photo shows up early or late war it has the foliage slits as per the 9-42 specs that I have found. I would really like to find a confirmed so called "1st Model" picture honestly.

Until then, another nice early use during the transition period from nets/burlap to the production cover. A heavy crop from a photo on Bougainville late 1943.

[bargunner]

Thoughts on this?

 

http://www.criticalpast.com/video/65675052779_6th-Marine-Division-4th-Marines_interrogation_civilian-prisoner_camp-fire

[Steve1987]

Here is a crop from the true original which shows just a bit more of the side of the helmet cover. This can now positively be identified as a 9-42 spec type cover with the foliage slits as can be seen next to the right border.

 

Just as another example on how hard it is to pick out the foliage slits in these photographs, this photo is just a little bit clearer and darker in tone which reveals a second foliage slit high on the cover about straight up from this marine's nose in the space between the patterns next to the center sewn seam. This second slit was always there in the first copy as well, just not visible due to brightness of the photo.

 

I know this one has been copied quite a bit and used as the best chance of a good 1st Model in use, me included, but wanted to update so as to be completely accurate for everyone's benefit.

 

usmc iwo jima general - Copy - Copy (2).jpg

 

Hi pump 150,

 

Thanks for the update to thread! As far as I'm concerned, you are the expert on these, and I truly believe you were onto something when you started this thread.

 

Your high resolution photo shows the truth, the slits are a lot harder to see than some people think. A lot of collectors swore that photo is a "1st pattern" cover.

 

I took a lot of flak recently for stating I am more comfortable with the type with slits as WWII issue items in another thread on here when a new member was looking to buy a WWII USMC helmet.

 

Hopefully one day we will be able to prove when the so called "1st pattern" covers were first used.

 

This is a valuable thread and I really appreciate you taking the time to post high resolution photos.

 

-Steve

[pump 150]

No, I am no expert by any means. I simply enjoy researching the subject and trying to gather the facts with the help of others willing wherever they may lead in order to eventually find the truth if at all possible. That's it.

[Steve1987]

Thoughts on this?

 

http://www.criticalpast.com/video/65675052779_6th-Marine-Division-4th-Marines_interrogation_civilian-prisoner_camp-fire

 

Tough one. Could be a clue towards the late war theory. It's still somewhat hard to say?

 

This is just my thoughts on what *might* be slits:

 

 

-Steve

[Cap Camouflage Pattern I]

 

Tough one. Could be a clue towards the late war theory. It's still somewhat hard to say?

 

This is just my thoughts on what *might* be slits:

 

 

-Steve

2nd circle looks too far down to me. I think the picture is too low quality to tell us anything but a persons bias.

[Steve1987]

2nd circle looks too far down to me. I think the picture is too low quality to tell us anything but a persons bias.

 

I paid the $5 to get the high res version and it didn't help unfortunately. It could very well be an example of a no-slit helmet being worn late war but hopefully we can find something better. -Steve

[doyler]

Intresting photo as the cover is being worn with the seam running side to side verses front to back

[mdk0911]

All,

 

I was watching a show on the military channel last night about Guadalcanal and I swear I saw marines with Frogskin camo covers.

The initial landings of US Mariens was on 7 August 1942 and they secured the airfield - So I was wondering if anyone has a picture of a marine(s) on the Canal with a camo cover on - even better if one could be dated. I did search the internet last night but it got to late and couldn't find any. I'm trying to see if any marines had a camo cover on before the Sept. 1942 spec sheet on them? I think you see where I'm going with this - if any marines wearing a camo cover before the spec sheet was printed????

[Cap Camouflage Pattern I]

Probably stock footage from a different (and later) invasion.