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A couple of unknowns for ID help


Patchcollector

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Patchcollector

The computer made patches that I have in my collection all have tiny dots,or holes in the stitching.

High Flight

Oh, I have slipped the surly bonds of earth

And danced the skies on laughter-silver wings;

Sunward I've climbed and joined the tumbling mirth

Of sun-split clouds - and done a hundred things

You have not dreamed of - wheeled and soared and swung

High in the sunlit silence. Hovering there

I've chased the shouting wind along and flung

My eager craft through footless halls of air.

Up, up the long delirious, burning blue

I've topped the wind-swept heights with easy grace,

where never lark, or even eagle flew;

and while, with silent, lifting mind I've trod

The high untrespassed sanctity of space,

Put out my hand, and touched the face of God.

 

John Gillespie Magee, Jr.

June 9, 1922 – December 11, 1941

 

 

 

" And each man stands with his face in the light of his own drawn sword. Ready to do what a hero can." - Elizabeth Barrett Browning

 

 

Don't let the B@stards wear you down -"Vinegar" Joe Stillwell

 

 

Reasonable people adapt themselves to the world.Unreasonable

people attempt to adapt the world to themselves.All progress,

therefore, depends on unreasonable people.

George Bernard Shaw

 

 

" Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining" , Fletcher,from the movie "The outlaw Josey Wales"

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Topics merged. It's probably best if we keep all of this information together.

Gil Burket
Omaha, NE
Specializing in Fakes and Reproductions
of the Vietnam War

burkcats@hotmail.com

 

"One is easily fooled by that which one loves."

 

Moliere: Tartuffe

 

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  • 9 months later...
Patchcollector

While doing some research on another Pilot class patch I found this photo of one that looks exactly like my Fire Dragon piece.

It even has the "S" shaped 5!

 

Here is a link to the photo:

http://www.usafupt.com/id128.htm

 

 

Scroll down to the next to last batch of patches to see it.

 

 

post-13386-0-08014300-1396050496.jpg

High Flight

Oh, I have slipped the surly bonds of earth

And danced the skies on laughter-silver wings;

Sunward I've climbed and joined the tumbling mirth

Of sun-split clouds - and done a hundred things

You have not dreamed of - wheeled and soared and swung

High in the sunlit silence. Hovering there

I've chased the shouting wind along and flung

My eager craft through footless halls of air.

Up, up the long delirious, burning blue

I've topped the wind-swept heights with easy grace,

where never lark, or even eagle flew;

and while, with silent, lifting mind I've trod

The high untrespassed sanctity of space,

Put out my hand, and touched the face of God.

 

John Gillespie Magee, Jr.

June 9, 1922 – December 11, 1941

 

 

 

" And each man stands with his face in the light of his own drawn sword. Ready to do what a hero can." - Elizabeth Barrett Browning

 

 

Don't let the B@stards wear you down -"Vinegar" Joe Stillwell

 

 

Reasonable people adapt themselves to the world.Unreasonable

people attempt to adapt the world to themselves.All progress,

therefore, depends on unreasonable people.

George Bernard Shaw

 

 

" Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining" , Fletcher,from the movie "The outlaw Josey Wales"

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Patchcollector

Since I have found a patch on a School website that matches my patch,I'm going to call this "case closed" and take this out of my "undecided" box

and put it in my "authentic" box. :)

High Flight

Oh, I have slipped the surly bonds of earth

And danced the skies on laughter-silver wings;

Sunward I've climbed and joined the tumbling mirth

Of sun-split clouds - and done a hundred things

You have not dreamed of - wheeled and soared and swung

High in the sunlit silence. Hovering there

I've chased the shouting wind along and flung

My eager craft through footless halls of air.

Up, up the long delirious, burning blue

I've topped the wind-swept heights with easy grace,

where never lark, or even eagle flew;

and while, with silent, lifting mind I've trod

The high untrespassed sanctity of space,

Put out my hand, and touched the face of God.

 

John Gillespie Magee, Jr.

June 9, 1922 – December 11, 1941

 

 

 

" And each man stands with his face in the light of his own drawn sword. Ready to do what a hero can." - Elizabeth Barrett Browning

 

 

Don't let the B@stards wear you down -"Vinegar" Joe Stillwell

 

 

Reasonable people adapt themselves to the world.Unreasonable

people attempt to adapt the world to themselves.All progress,

therefore, depends on unreasonable people.

George Bernard Shaw

 

 

" Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining" , Fletcher,from the movie "The outlaw Josey Wales"

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firefighter

Not to start a new thing but I think the one on the site is a fake.Those class patches are harder to find than a squadron patch and I bet it was just a 'filler'.If you notice how ALL the other class patch numbers look like numbers.They wouldn't make a patch for '75-02' to look like '7S.02'.Just my opinion but I still don't think it's authentic.

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ASMIC #1098

 





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Patchcollector

I had a feeling someone would post that.So they are all fakes? :lol: I don't see any other fakes on his website.I'm going to believe what I see on an advanced collectors' website over the opinions I've seen here,which by the way,have absolutely no proof to back their statements.I have provided proof of mine by finding another exactly like it on a School patch collectors' website.Now,I invite anyone who has a "real" one to post it here so we can compare it to mine and the one on the School website. :)

High Flight

Oh, I have slipped the surly bonds of earth

And danced the skies on laughter-silver wings;

Sunward I've climbed and joined the tumbling mirth

Of sun-split clouds - and done a hundred things

You have not dreamed of - wheeled and soared and swung

High in the sunlit silence. Hovering there

I've chased the shouting wind along and flung

My eager craft through footless halls of air.

Up, up the long delirious, burning blue

I've topped the wind-swept heights with easy grace,

where never lark, or even eagle flew;

and while, with silent, lifting mind I've trod

The high untrespassed sanctity of space,

Put out my hand, and touched the face of God.

 

John Gillespie Magee, Jr.

June 9, 1922 – December 11, 1941

 

 

 

" And each man stands with his face in the light of his own drawn sword. Ready to do what a hero can." - Elizabeth Barrett Browning

 

 

Don't let the B@stards wear you down -"Vinegar" Joe Stillwell

 

 

Reasonable people adapt themselves to the world.Unreasonable

people attempt to adapt the world to themselves.All progress,

therefore, depends on unreasonable people.

George Bernard Shaw

 

 

" Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining" , Fletcher,from the movie "The outlaw Josey Wales"

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Patchcollector, have you contacted Mark1? He replied in posts 4 & 6 and said he has one. Maybe he can post a picture of his. Jeffro

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firefighter

I'm not being a smarta@@ but If you're happy thats all that matters.Just saying I wouldn't have it in my collection.

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ASMIC #1098

 





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Patchcollector

Patchcollector, have you contacted Mark1? He replied in posts 4 & 6 and said he has one. Maybe he can post a picture of his. Jeffro

 

Hi Jeffro,

Yes he has stated he has one,and I was hoping that he would post it but he did'nt.I have'nt contacted him but he is most welcome to post his,I would love to see it! :)

 

 

 

I'm not being a smarta@@ but If you're happy thats all that matters.Just saying I wouldn't have it in my collection.

 

I understand.This is a forum,and every one is entitled to their opinions.I respect that.What bothers me is when opinion is given with no proof to back it up.I have found a matching patch on a well respected website to post here to back mine up,and it too was dismissed as fake,again with no proof to back the claim.

High Flight

Oh, I have slipped the surly bonds of earth

And danced the skies on laughter-silver wings;

Sunward I've climbed and joined the tumbling mirth

Of sun-split clouds - and done a hundred things

You have not dreamed of - wheeled and soared and swung

High in the sunlit silence. Hovering there

I've chased the shouting wind along and flung

My eager craft through footless halls of air.

Up, up the long delirious, burning blue

I've topped the wind-swept heights with easy grace,

where never lark, or even eagle flew;

and while, with silent, lifting mind I've trod

The high untrespassed sanctity of space,

Put out my hand, and touched the face of God.

 

John Gillespie Magee, Jr.

June 9, 1922 – December 11, 1941

 

 

 

" And each man stands with his face in the light of his own drawn sword. Ready to do what a hero can." - Elizabeth Barrett Browning

 

 

Don't let the B@stards wear you down -"Vinegar" Joe Stillwell

 

 

Reasonable people adapt themselves to the world.Unreasonable

people attempt to adapt the world to themselves.All progress,

therefore, depends on unreasonable people.

George Bernard Shaw

 

 

" Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining" , Fletcher,from the movie "The outlaw Josey Wales"

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firefighter

Proof.

 

Look at the construction of the other class patches.Much better quality and U.S. made.

 

NONE of the other class patches have a letter in place of a number.

 

No other class patch is foreign made.These students came to the U.S. and were instructed at USAF bases by American instructors.

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ASMIC #1098

 





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Patchcollector

How do you know all of the class patches are US made??Patches back then,as well as now,are sometimes ordered from overseas manufacturers.
It doesn't matter if the unit is US based or not.I have many foreign made patches for US units in my collection,and I'm not talking theatre made wartime pieces either.
When I look at the USAF class patches I see an amazing variety of manufacturing styles,and I've always felt that the USAF class patches are,for the most part,kind of "cheesy" as far is quality is concerned.
The USAF class patches were ordered in "batches" for each class.Batches were relatively small,and for a VNAF class,the batch would be even smaller.Could a batch of patches have a typo on them?Yes.Would there be time to order another batch?Perhaps not.

But all this is water under the bridge,so to speak.I've posted visual proof from another respected source to back up my opinions.Until visual proof is offered to the contrary,the patch is going to stand as authentic in my view.

High Flight

Oh, I have slipped the surly bonds of earth

And danced the skies on laughter-silver wings;

Sunward I've climbed and joined the tumbling mirth

Of sun-split clouds - and done a hundred things

You have not dreamed of - wheeled and soared and swung

High in the sunlit silence. Hovering there

I've chased the shouting wind along and flung

My eager craft through footless halls of air.

Up, up the long delirious, burning blue

I've topped the wind-swept heights with easy grace,

where never lark, or even eagle flew;

and while, with silent, lifting mind I've trod

The high untrespassed sanctity of space,

Put out my hand, and touched the face of God.

 

John Gillespie Magee, Jr.

June 9, 1922 – December 11, 1941

 

 

 

" And each man stands with his face in the light of his own drawn sword. Ready to do what a hero can." - Elizabeth Barrett Browning

 

 

Don't let the B@stards wear you down -"Vinegar" Joe Stillwell

 

 

Reasonable people adapt themselves to the world.Unreasonable

people attempt to adapt the world to themselves.All progress,

therefore, depends on unreasonable people.

George Bernard Shaw

 

 

" Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining" , Fletcher,from the movie "The outlaw Josey Wales"

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  • 2 weeks later...

I have no dog in this fight, but I am wondering if you--Patchcollecter-- contacted the owner of the web site in which you found your comparision patch, to ask him if he thought his patch was an original or a "repro fill in"??? I dont recall his name or email address, but I sold him two class patches a few years back. Unless he states that his patch is a repro, based on the evidence provided, I would have to side with Patchcollector. Also, let me state that I am no where near the authority on patches that the earlier contributers to this thread are.

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firefighter

I did send owner of the site a message a week or so ago, forgot about it.Below is what he sent me.Did not state where he got it from and I still have my doubts about it.Any who this is what he said;

 

 

Hi Jim. It is one of the South Vietnam training classes.The FIRE DRAGON.

Jim Flaviani Mar 31 (10 days ago)
cleardot.gif
It is an original. When it was made, it was made with the error and they used it.

me Apr 2 (8 days ago)
cleardot.gif
Jim, Thank you for the information and time.Is the patch U.S. made?
Jim Flaviani Apr 2 (8 days ago)
cleardot.gif
Theater made

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ASMIC #1098

 





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Nice find. Nothing better than having a picture of a patch on a uniform worn by the guy who went through the class. Nothing like the one earlier in the post here. As far as the website moderator saying the one he posted is theater made . I don't know what theater it was but it wasn't Vietnam in my opinion.

M

When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace"
Jimi Hendrix


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vintageproductions

That is a great image on that link.

You can tell without a doubt that the patch is US made and the details are amazing compared to the original patch posted.

Like has been stated there were very few of these class patches made, and they are always high quality.

www.vintageproductions.com

"A militaria show is a social event for anti-socials" - A.T. 2008

ASMIC Executive President

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From the aforementioned link...http://translate.goo...iw=1333&bih=698, which appears to be a translation of a South Vietnamese veteran's site, there appears to have been a reunion of pilots from class 75-02 in 2010. Is it possible that the patch in question( an "s" for a 5) is a reunion patch, made for that event. It has been suggested that there is evidence of computer stitching being used to make that patch and this would fall in line with a patch being made for the reunion in 2010, and just may have been made in Viet Nam. Just throwing that out there for discussion!!!

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Patchcollector

Thanks for finding the link.I'm posting a pic of it here.So now there is a photo taken in 2004 of a very new looking patch,and a school website owner saying that the "error" one is original.Kind of at odds with each other!Does anyone know how to contact the Vietnamese person who posted the photo?
Also,I'm hoping that Mark from this forum could post his patch.If it matches the one in the photo recently found,that would be proof without a shadow of a doubt.

 

 

post-13386-0-97907100-1397429720.jpg

High Flight

Oh, I have slipped the surly bonds of earth

And danced the skies on laughter-silver wings;

Sunward I've climbed and joined the tumbling mirth

Of sun-split clouds - and done a hundred things

You have not dreamed of - wheeled and soared and swung

High in the sunlit silence. Hovering there

I've chased the shouting wind along and flung

My eager craft through footless halls of air.

Up, up the long delirious, burning blue

I've topped the wind-swept heights with easy grace,

where never lark, or even eagle flew;

and while, with silent, lifting mind I've trod

The high untrespassed sanctity of space,

Put out my hand, and touched the face of God.

 

John Gillespie Magee, Jr.

June 9, 1922 – December 11, 1941

 

 

 

" And each man stands with his face in the light of his own drawn sword. Ready to do what a hero can." - Elizabeth Barrett Browning

 

 

Don't let the B@stards wear you down -"Vinegar" Joe Stillwell

 

 

Reasonable people adapt themselves to the world.Unreasonable

people attempt to adapt the world to themselves.All progress,

therefore, depends on unreasonable people.

George Bernard Shaw

 

 

" Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining" , Fletcher,from the movie "The outlaw Josey Wales"

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Patchcollector

I just sent Mark a message.I noticed he has'nt been on the forum for a few months.Hopefully he will see the message and post his!

High Flight

Oh, I have slipped the surly bonds of earth

And danced the skies on laughter-silver wings;

Sunward I've climbed and joined the tumbling mirth

Of sun-split clouds - and done a hundred things

You have not dreamed of - wheeled and soared and swung

High in the sunlit silence. Hovering there

I've chased the shouting wind along and flung

My eager craft through footless halls of air.

Up, up the long delirious, burning blue

I've topped the wind-swept heights with easy grace,

where never lark, or even eagle flew;

and while, with silent, lifting mind I've trod

The high untrespassed sanctity of space,

Put out my hand, and touched the face of God.

 

John Gillespie Magee, Jr.

June 9, 1922 – December 11, 1941

 

 

 

" And each man stands with his face in the light of his own drawn sword. Ready to do what a hero can." - Elizabeth Barrett Browning

 

 

Don't let the B@stards wear you down -"Vinegar" Joe Stillwell

 

 

Reasonable people adapt themselves to the world.Unreasonable

people attempt to adapt the world to themselves.All progress,

therefore, depends on unreasonable people.

George Bernard Shaw

 

 

" Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining" , Fletcher,from the movie "The outlaw Josey Wales"

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Share on other sites

Thanks for finding the link.I'm posting a pic of it here.So now there is a photo taken in 2004 of a very new looking patch,and a school website owner saying that the "error" one is original.Kind of at odds with each other!Does anyone know how to contact the Vietnamese person who posted the photo?

Also,I'm hoping that Mark from this forum could post his patch.If it matches the one in the photo recently found,that would be proof without a shadow of a doubt.

 

 

I have tried to register with that SVNAF site and waiting approval. So if I hear anything after contacting the poster of that patch I will let you know.

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Patchcollector

I have tried to register with that SVNAF site and waiting approval. So if I hear anything after contacting the poster of that patch I will let you know.

 

Thanks!

High Flight

Oh, I have slipped the surly bonds of earth

And danced the skies on laughter-silver wings;

Sunward I've climbed and joined the tumbling mirth

Of sun-split clouds - and done a hundred things

You have not dreamed of - wheeled and soared and swung

High in the sunlit silence. Hovering there

I've chased the shouting wind along and flung

My eager craft through footless halls of air.

Up, up the long delirious, burning blue

I've topped the wind-swept heights with easy grace,

where never lark, or even eagle flew;

and while, with silent, lifting mind I've trod

The high untrespassed sanctity of space,

Put out my hand, and touched the face of God.

 

John Gillespie Magee, Jr.

June 9, 1922 – December 11, 1941

 

 

 

" And each man stands with his face in the light of his own drawn sword. Ready to do what a hero can." - Elizabeth Barrett Browning

 

 

Don't let the B@stards wear you down -"Vinegar" Joe Stillwell

 

 

Reasonable people adapt themselves to the world.Unreasonable

people attempt to adapt the world to themselves.All progress,

therefore, depends on unreasonable people.

George Bernard Shaw

 

 

" Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining" , Fletcher,from the movie "The outlaw Josey Wales"

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Ahh, so the patch is Pilot Class 75-02 from Sheppard AFB. It makes sense now. This patch has nothing to do with Vietnam. The originally posted patch might have been simply a civilian jacket novelty knock off.

 

-Ski

In Memory Of......
Pte Harold Griffiths, 1805, 1/6th Manchester Regt, KIA June 4th, 1915 in Gallipoli
Cpl Isaac Judges, 40494, 6th East Yorkshire Regt, KIA October 3rd, 1917 in Ypres
May they rest in peace.....

MSgt - USAF Retired

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Patchcollector

Ahh, so the patch is Pilot Class 75-02 from Sheppard AFB. It makes sense now. This patch has nothing to do with Vietnam. The originally posted patch might have been simply a civilian jacket novelty knock off.

 

-Ski

 

Actually the patch has alot to do with Vietnam as the pilots trained for this class were Vietnamese :)

High Flight

Oh, I have slipped the surly bonds of earth

And danced the skies on laughter-silver wings;

Sunward I've climbed and joined the tumbling mirth

Of sun-split clouds - and done a hundred things

You have not dreamed of - wheeled and soared and swung

High in the sunlit silence. Hovering there

I've chased the shouting wind along and flung

My eager craft through footless halls of air.

Up, up the long delirious, burning blue

I've topped the wind-swept heights with easy grace,

where never lark, or even eagle flew;

and while, with silent, lifting mind I've trod

The high untrespassed sanctity of space,

Put out my hand, and touched the face of God.

 

John Gillespie Magee, Jr.

June 9, 1922 – December 11, 1941

 

 

 

" And each man stands with his face in the light of his own drawn sword. Ready to do what a hero can." - Elizabeth Barrett Browning

 

 

Don't let the B@stards wear you down -"Vinegar" Joe Stillwell

 

 

Reasonable people adapt themselves to the world.Unreasonable

people attempt to adapt the world to themselves.All progress,

therefore, depends on unreasonable people.

George Bernard Shaw

 

 

" Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining" , Fletcher,from the movie "The outlaw Josey Wales"

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Actually the patch has alot to do with Vietnam as the pilots trained for this class were Vietnamese :)

 

 

And so they stayed in the US then after the fall?

 

-SKi

In Memory Of......
Pte Harold Griffiths, 1805, 1/6th Manchester Regt, KIA June 4th, 1915 in Gallipoli
Cpl Isaac Judges, 40494, 6th East Yorkshire Regt, KIA October 3rd, 1917 in Ypres
May they rest in peace.....

MSgt - USAF Retired

donation2008.gifdonation2009.gifdonation2010.gifdonation2011.gif

donation2012.gifdonation2013.gifdonation2014.gifdonation2015.gifdonation2016.gif

donation2017.gif


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Patchcollector

 

 

And so they stayed in the US then after the fall?

 

-SKi

 

 

I believe some found refuge here,not sure at what point though.I think the pilots were sent back and some escaped later.

High Flight

Oh, I have slipped the surly bonds of earth

And danced the skies on laughter-silver wings;

Sunward I've climbed and joined the tumbling mirth

Of sun-split clouds - and done a hundred things

You have not dreamed of - wheeled and soared and swung

High in the sunlit silence. Hovering there

I've chased the shouting wind along and flung

My eager craft through footless halls of air.

Up, up the long delirious, burning blue

I've topped the wind-swept heights with easy grace,

where never lark, or even eagle flew;

and while, with silent, lifting mind I've trod

The high untrespassed sanctity of space,

Put out my hand, and touched the face of God.

 

John Gillespie Magee, Jr.

June 9, 1922 – December 11, 1941

 

 

 

" And each man stands with his face in the light of his own drawn sword. Ready to do what a hero can." - Elizabeth Barrett Browning

 

 

Don't let the B@stards wear you down -"Vinegar" Joe Stillwell

 

 

Reasonable people adapt themselves to the world.Unreasonable

people attempt to adapt the world to themselves.All progress,

therefore, depends on unreasonable people.

George Bernard Shaw

 

 

" Don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining" , Fletcher,from the movie "The outlaw Josey Wales"

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