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Is this too far to go in "re-enacting".....?


glenm
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The guy on the right is a total rump. A silver star, a purple heart...really? He'd probably shinola his pants and run for momma if he ever heard a shot fired in anger. In the states we had the Stolen Valor Act which was overturned, but will probably be reinstated with modifications. It makes it illegal to pose in the current uniform displaying medals and decorations you did not earn. I'm not suggesting that others should be offended, everyone can have their own opinion, but I certainly am.

 

None of us are old enough to have participated in the Civil War or WW II, so I can understand that, but Iraq just ended and Afghanistan is ongoing. We are still burying American Soldiers in this uniform who were killed in combat. If you want want to wear these uniforms and "earn" what goes on them, then grow some balls and enlist. If not, stick to the past conflicts.

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I notice that my language was auto edited in the above post. Too bad...I liked the original version better.

Yeah censorship kills me :(

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market garden

No!!!!!!!!!.I would ask the two on right remove all decorations.An file a complaint with event sponsers

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I am ashamed of them.Can we get there real names please?

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Whenever I do a living history display wearing a uniform where ribbons are appropriate I only wear the ribbons that I earned even if the uniform is a WW1 officers uniform just my $.05

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Now this I would pay to see, an even bigger spectacle than just leaving it go.

No!!!!!!!!!.I would ask the two on right remove all decorations.An file a complaint with event sponsers

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The "individual" in the blues has been taken to task on various internet places, and he seems to allow the female to fight all his battles for him. She claims that no one was upset at the time, but they now reason they should not have put on the bravery medals and have taken them off. I tried to explain to her while that's nice, wearing a full dress uniform of a current active army officer is just plain wrong, in bad taste, and stupid.

 

I would hope that most people would have the sense NOT to do something like this, and hope if he continues to do this our friends in the UK will publically shame him, and if it is actually on an active base (as one event supposedly was) they inform the base security to deal with him.

 

He's been warned a zillion times by people on the internet just how stupid it is, and if he continues to do so (without some rational explanation) deserves what he gets.

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As I mentioned earlier, I saw this pair walking around....or should I say "posing".... in these uniforms at last year's "War & Peace" show. I think that's where the pic was probably taken? I just stopped in my tracks, with my jaw-dropping and stared at right at them! However, I have to say I did not challenge them. The crowds at "War & Peace" are large and every other person seems to to be dressed up in some uniform or another...it's that kind of show! So, on that basis, you'd need to "challenge" almost everyone! However, if as you say, they've taken a lot of "flak" on other forums, then maybe they'll tone things down a bit if they intend to return next July. I'll be there myself and will make a point of looking out for them!

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willysmb44

Now this I would pay to see, an even bigger spectacle than just leaving it go.

 

I agree, that'd be worth the trip just to see it. But what you're probably see is someone standing at a distance, seething, and never really saying anything. Besides, what someone says on an internet forum is rarely what they'd really do in real life. It's awfully easy to be brave from behind a keyboard.

But even if someone really went up to them, what would you do if they told you to get lost when you made your demand? Really, what authority does any of us have over either of them? Not a bit! They could tell you where to stick your annoyance, laugh in your face, and walk on and there's not thing one you could do about it without risking jail.

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I still don't get it. Who on earth are these people really bothering? The people on the forums? A bunch of people who generally use a nom de plume so they can speak more authoritatively about pictures on the Internet? Frankly, they look a lot better than some of the real deals out there.

 

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I think there's a fine line between what some regard as re-enacting / living history (whatever you want to call it!) and "fancy dress"! Firstly, let me state the obvious...I'm not an American, nor have I ever served in the military. However, I've been a collector and student of US military history for nigh on 30 years now, so I do know a bit about it! I've never been a re-enactor myself, though I've always enjoyed watching them ...provided they do it properly and do not treat it as an excuse to run around throwing thunderflashes and generally "playing army"....know what I mean? Done accurately and respectfully it both educates the younger generation and honours the memory of those who served, which is how it should be. The "fancy dress" aspect is what this particular thread is all about. Such people are not honouring anyone but themselves. It's a form of attention seeking...no more, no less. I've been attending major militaria events in the UK since the 80s and such people are always present...in abundance! Just hang around outside the beer tent of a Saturday night and watch the paratroopers and Special Forces turn up in their Class As (it's always paratroopers or Special Forces...everyone wants to be a "hero"!) This is what I'd class as "fancy dress"...it's simply putting on a costume to attract attention and to try to impress others. To say it's honouring those who wore it for real is pure B-S!! I've been among them and watched/heard them look at others as they walk by, like bitchy girls would do to others at a school Prom...."his boots are laced up wrong....his ribbons are upside down...his overseas cap isn't crushed properly....the collar brass is repro....yadda, yadda, yadda! " I kid you not gentlemen!

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as i said in my early response, and here i wish to add my agreement to what sabrejet points out above, how can you claim living history representation is what you are portraying when you are in current uniform? history, if i need to belabor the obvious, is past tense. when i see people in vietnam uniforms and equipment, i don't run up and critique their set up, because frankly, i don't care if they want to do this. my only concern in that regard is if they try to pass themselves off as actual veterans who have received awards, when in fact they have not. i find this rather annoying.

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Consider that Britain is a staunch ally of the USA and allows us to have bases in the UK - so it is not out of the ordinary to see US military in the UK. And that both Britain and the USA are essentially at war with someone (the terrorists). Which has caused US bases to become closed and ID's checked, and security to be ramped up. Consider that if these folks walked onto US property they could be arrested under espionage or suspected terrorism charges.

 

This is not just in poor taste, but stupendously stupid as well. That they are dressed as Christmas trees only shows they are utterly moronic as well. That they use their OWN names on their name plates indicates not that they are portraying someone else, but that they are pretending to play soldier under their own name.

 

I dunno Lee, I wonder if the guy would have the balls to say anything if I ripped off his bravery medals. I'm not sure there is a jury that would convict someone of that, and if they did in England, you'd still be a national hero when you came home.

 

But thing is I was told they have done this on a US Air Base and at a US military Cemetery. Perhaps my info was wrong, but in this day and age, where a Major dressed in a modern uniform can get onto a base and shoot a bunch of people, don't you think maybe, for their own protection, this should be stopped? Would you ever THINK of walking into a place where they may well be active duty British Soldiers wearing a Col's uniform badged to the hilt? And what if these buffoons insulted someone or did something stupid- they are wearing the uniform representing the USA and if someone is not in the know, they will think an American soldier did it. Consider if he seig heiled an SS officer at an public event, and someone took a photo of a US Army LTC giving the Nazi salute to an SS officer- the papers would have a field day.

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And I'm nor referring to the the General Patton lookalike here, but the two on the right playing dress-up, seen like this at dances and other events in the UK, or sometimes walking around in current US Army/Air Force field uniform (inc full equipment and various (airsoft probably) weapons....

 

What's the general impression/thoughts/comments from you guys over in the US?

 

Cheers,

Glen.

 

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Simply said...HELL YES!!! The one dressed as Patton can be excused because this is not a current active duty uniform. But the Idiots in the modern dress blues should be prosecuted for fraud. The "Nightingale" tag borders on ridicule. I mean Hilarious!!!

 

This all has to do with empathy for uniformed personnel and how much respect you have for the services. How high esteem you hold for someone else's full measure of devotion and their service to country. The manner in which these people "mimick" the modern uniform is the crux of the context. Completely for personal edification, not for commemoration of others sacrifices.

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I still have a problem with this. On the one hand there is the criticism of those who show up in airborne service dress while there is the acceptance of a parody in a Patton outfit. Then there is a statement that this man and woman could be arrested for espionage if they wore these uniforms on a military base. How would the wear of these uniforms on a military base constitute espionage? I mean what is the worst that happened to this guy at Ft. Benning?

 

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what is the worst that happened to this guy at Ft. Benning?

 

 

He added a POW medal and a PH for that incident

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NCM1RIFLE82

Even if its a parade like uniforms over the years only a current service or discharged member can wear the current uniform and medals

 

Just as the law says you can't impersonate a cop or doctor you can not impersonate a current servicemen and its uniform

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willysmb44

Which law? That event was not in the US. It was an organized event, not a dining out or on a US military parade deck.

 

 

Correct. The event, as I understand it, was at a living history gathering in the UK. No US laws would have been broken in such a case.

Besides, I doubt any real laws would have broken given the context, even if it was in the US. They're at a timeline event, much like wearing a perfectly accurate uniform for a stage play or movie isn't illegal at all, I doubt any real laws would have broken given the context of the event as it's already been described, no matter how distasteful many (if not most) of us might find it.

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The idiot is wearing ribbons for a silver star and bronze star. Why didn't he just go all out and put on the MoH???

 

Let's put this into another perspective. If an American got all decked out as a SGT in the Queen's Rifles, fully decorated including medals of valor, maybe even the Victoria Cross, don't you think the Brits would have all been in a huff? I think so and I wouldn't blame them.

 

This is not a "Letter of the law" issue, it is the "Spritit" that is the crux. Only one reason exists to impersonate a current active duty soldier like this...personal satisfaction and ego stroking. In my opinion, this is NOT good enough of a reason. Some even do it to make fun or light of military service.

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This is not a "Letter of the law" issue, it is the "Spritit" that is the crux. Only one reason exists to impersonate a current active duty soldier like this...personal satisfaction and ego stroking. In my opinion, this is NOT good enough of a reason. Some even do it to make fun or light of military service.

Couldn't that really be said of anyone who puts on a uniform, such as all the re~enactors who are traipsing all around the coastal French countryside today? If you can say those people are really honoring the veterans of an earlier time it can just as well be applied to these two and others who also dress the same. As one of those veterans of an earlier conflict I personally struggle each time I see another group dress in Vietnam attire but as much as it bothers me I also appreciate what they are trying to do and often PM the poster with my encouragement. Instead of condemning these two as seems to be the preference here wouldn't encouragement be more appropriate? No matter their reason for dressing in this manner there isn't anyone here who has the right to judge them, be you a combat vet or just another collector.

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Bumper_Morgan

...personal satisfaction and ego stroking...

 

So what?

If this is what these guys need to feel good, let them do it.

Thousands of reenactors walk around in Airborne, Special Forces, Ranger, Commando, officer, NCO...whatever kind of fancy kit and they would not remotely stand a realistic chance to become one in the real military.

For so many people, reenacting is play-acting, not unlike LARP. They can be all they want to be.

Yeah, it is well-known that for many deficitary characters it is a way to compensate for their underachievement in real life.

But who are we to judge them?

Maybe to them what they do is a valid way to honor the sacrifice of today's warfighters? Even if they just do it because they enjoy wearing a cool uniform.

 

As long as these folks don't walk up to people and claim to be real-world soldiers (say, to impersonate), I'm fine with what they do.

Couldn't care less, in fact.

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Key phrase...

 

Modern Active Duty Uniform.

 

Again, this is just my opinion and where I would draw the line.

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Why do people say "you have no right to judge people" ?

 

People judge other people everyday and everywhere. I make judgements regarding other people based on their behavior, history, attitude, performance, abilities, etc, etc. To say I have no right to judge people is to say I have no right to have free thought.

 

Now my judgements are personal, and my judgements decide my actions. My judgements are very real and ultimately define my opinions and determine who I associate with.

 

My judgements do not carry the effect of law, but my judgements of people are an important aspect to everyday living.

 

Please don't tell me I have no right to judge people. :)

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