USMC Sampson medal is it good ?

[John C. Calhoun]

 

This is from forum member Adam R's website, he is an authority of older US named and numbered medals.

This comparison that is about as "head to head" as we can have with Sampson medals. Both are for awardees of the MOH. One is stands alone, while the other has a commemorative medal with it. They are from two different ships.Look at the MOH citations!

All of the differences pointed out......is one worth $5,500 MORE??

USS Newark Sampson Medal to Medal of Honor recipient William E. Holyoke. The medal is a phase I that is impressed with his name and rate, "B.M.2d.C.". Holyoke was awarded the MoH for heroism as a member of the Seymour Expedition during the Boxer Rebellion.

Price $2000 (Sold)

 

This is the site address....... http://www.oldusmedals.com/usnmedals.html

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I just discovered this thread today for an auction I posted last year and have now reposted on eBay. Since everyone was weighing in on the medal group, I thought I might offer up my 2 cents (specifically addressing the above question of valuation of the group):

 

I think it's hard for any of us to place a value on an ID'd/named group and I'm sure we've all struggled in our attempts to do so - you don't want to sell yourself short, and you don't want to price yourself out of the market. I thought long and hard about the offer value of this grouping and I don't believe the above evaluation really does justice to what is being offered. The above medal grouping was for a Navy man and (this is a VERY general statement, but holds true in many cases) Navy Sampson Medals are worth about 1/3 of the value of USMC named medals (at least by my research and feel free to disagree). Here is a link to a usmilitariaforum tread discussing two USMC named Sampson Medals which fetched prices higher than that of the USN MOH recipient medal which was my grouping was compared with: http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/56118-beautiful-usmc-sampson-medal/. Both of those medals were not USMC MOH recipients and from different ships (which is what makes coming up with a definite price so difficult). Here is my "less-than-scientific" logic for my pricing (again, feel free to disagree by refraining from purchasing the group);

 

1. Most government stamped/engraved Sampson Medal fetch >$900 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Named-1898-Spanish-American-War-Sampson-West-Indies-Medal-U-S-S-St-Louis-/161308456340?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item258ebbb594)

2. Different ships bring different values - the Brooklyn being a sought-after ship - it brings slightly more money (http://www.ebay.com/itm/USS-BROOKLYN-SAMPSON-MEDAL-NAMED-IN-CASE-OF-ISSUE-/171319875017?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27e375d5c9 -- assuming the case would bring $400)

3. There weren't nearly as many US Marines as there were Army or Navy personnel. USMC government stamped/engraved medals regularly fetch upwards of $2750 (see the link referenced in the paragraph above - also a quick "Google" search will bring up many other USMC medal which realized values above $3,000)

4. I spoke with the owner of a Sampson Medal named to a Naval MOH recipient. The owner informed me that he was offered $3,000 for his medal and refused to sell.

4. The Brooklyn Medal (although not complete) comes with the group (not totally sure on the value, but it certainly adds to the value =)

5. Only 15 Marines were awarded the MOH (this being the only Marine from the USS Brooklyn - collectors of USS Brooklyn medals would certainly find this appealing) - that is compared to 31 Army and 66 Navy MOH recipients. So you have a small subset within a small subset (marines being the smallest branch represented and the fewest amount of MOH's bestowed).

6. There is a really neat General Order which details the history of HOW the individual won the Medal of Honor. To me (and I understand every collector is different), I like to see some history behind my medal groupings. Someone climbing a jacob's ladder during a critical point of a famous engagement to perform a task after 2 other men have tried and failed is a really neat thing. Generally - you don't buy the story - *unless* it is recorded in a General Order and was officially documented and deemed worthy of a Medal of Honor.

 

So, I know the USMC medals regularly go for the $2,750+ range, but how do I factor in the Brooklyn Medal, MOH recipient status, the really neat General Order or the fact that there are the fewest MOH bestowed upon Marines? I try my best. I ask myself, would I rather have TWO USMC named Sampson Medals or ONE with a REALLY neat, proven, recorded story behind it to a real American hero? To me (maybe not to others), I'd rather have the one with the really neat background. Thus a price that is roughly double the cost of purchasing two USMC named Sampson Medals (and the lucky buyer gets the Brooklyn Medal at no cost).

 

So - I'm not forcing anyone to buy this medal group and I respect the opinions of everyone in this thread - but my opinion is that you cannot compare an non USMC Sampson medal from a different ship to this medal grouping. For every eBay auction or forum I reference, I'm sure someone can find a counter which went for a lower price. I'm fine with that and I respect your due diligence before making a purchase. I know what I believe the group is worth and hopefully I've done a fine job of refuting why it isn't a sound argument to compare apples to oranges.

[jmpmstr]

Well said and explained. Sometimes the logic dots don't connect until we get into one's head. At the end of the day, coupled with the above facts....anything of value like this, is worth what someone who wants it is willing to pay (or believes is fair to pay). Intrinsically there is a certain value just based on the parts and what they are as materials. The overriding value to a collector is, IMO, the combination of the intrinsic value coupled with historical value/significance (as is the case here). There may be familial connections etc that drive the perceived value up for one person vice another.

 

I am a Sampson & Dewey collector. I like them, I think they are just plain "neat". In that regard I might be part type collector. I'm not the guy to collect specific ships, or phases, or individuals (MOH recipients or officers only etc)....I just collect the ones I can afford and ones that I like, understanding I will not collect them all, but I like them so I try to get them. That said, for me, I would generally not drop 4K+ on it. Not because I dont believe and understand or agree with the valuation. I think it's right on. I'm just not that specific a type collector so it is a group that's not a MUST HAVE for me. If I was blessed enough to have a large cache of disposible income, that might allow me to invest in group like this. Another guy may come along and see this and feel like, THIS is the holy grail for his/her collecting interest in the Sampson genre....and happily pay more than this for it because it means so much more to him than another collector.

 

My most likely redundant $.02