Bearmon Posted March 24, 2008 Share #1 Posted March 24, 2008 I am a patch guy but have problems passing by what I think is a good deal. I picked this chrusher up along with patches and DUI's and am wondering about its value. I notice that this one has a smaller Eagle than most I have seen, don't know weather this is good or bad. The sweat band is seperating from the hat, only broken threads not damage to the sweat band. No markings that I can find. But the Brim is totally flexable, and soft and undamaged. The prices I see vary greatly for these covers, any idea what this one is worth? The only photo I have right now: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GIl Sanow Posted March 24, 2008 Share #2 Posted March 24, 2008 I am a patch guy but have problems passing by what I think is a good deal.I picked this chrusher up along with patches and DUI's and am wondering about its value. I notice that this one has a smaller Eagle than most I have seen, don't know weather this is good or bad. The sweat band is seperating from the hat, only broken threads not damage to the sweat band. No markings that I can find. But the Brim is totally flexable, and soft and undamaged. The prices I see vary greatly for these covers, any idea what this one is worth? The only photo I have right now: It looks to me like a private purchase EM cap since it lacks the mohair band authorized for officers. The eagle appears to be an EM's also, but missing the backer disc. Not sure how I would value it. G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricardo Posted March 24, 2008 Share #3 Posted March 24, 2008 It looks to me like a private purchase EM cap since it lacks the mohair band authorized for officers. The eagle appears to be an EM's also, but missing the backer disc. Not sure how I would value it. G Good eyes G!! One EM´s cap with same crusher shape: Best regards, Ricardo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KurtA Posted March 24, 2008 Share #4 Posted March 24, 2008 It's not a crusher, but rather a standard EM hat with the round stiffiner removed. A true crusher has a very pliable visor. This one has a very thick and not very pliable visor. Kurt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FW12 Posted March 24, 2008 Share #5 Posted March 24, 2008 It looks to me like a private purchase EM cap since it lacks the mohair band authorized for officers. The eagle appears to be an EM's also, but missing the backer disc. Not sure how I would value it. G The value is between $10-$20, probably towards the latter since it is a private purchase cap with what looks to be a gabardine top. Beau Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearmon Posted March 24, 2008 Author Share #6 Posted March 24, 2008 Kurt I think yoiu missed the part where I wrote the Brim is soft and veryu flexable. I can roll it up I will try to get pictures as an example. Thanks all for the comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KurtA Posted March 24, 2008 Share #7 Posted March 24, 2008 Kurt I think yoiu missed the part where I wrote the Brim is soft and veryu flexable.I can roll it up I will try to get pictures as an example. Thanks all for the comments. No, don't do that - not good for 60 year old leather. In the photo, it just didn't look like the thin crusher visor. Kurt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USMCRECON Posted March 25, 2008 Share #8 Posted March 25, 2008 The Eagle certanly could also be an enlisted eagle with the disc removed. The lack of mohair band would indicate an enlisted hat, certainly but, if I'm seeing the picture correctly, it seems to be made of officer chocolate elastique material rather than enlisted coarse OD wool. It doesn't seem like it would even approximately match an enlisted uniform. It makes me wonder why it is made of chocolate elastique but without mohair? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FW12 Posted March 25, 2008 Share #9 Posted March 25, 2008 The Eagle certanly could also be an enlisted eagle with the disc removed. The lack of mohair band would indicate an enlisted hat, certainly but, if I'm seeing the picture correctly, it seems to be made of officer chocolate elastique material rather than enlisted coarse OD wool. It doesn't seem like it would even approximately match an enlisted uniform. It makes me wonder why it is made of chocolate elastique but without mohair? Often enlisted men bought caps from companies like Society Brand and Imperial that did have that officer-quality top, but lacked the mohair band (so as to comply with regulations). Just like with privately tailored uniforms, those who were willing to spend the big bucks bought their own officer-quality, but definitely enlisted, visors. Its nothing particularly special, the soldier just had a little more money. Beau Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Cain Posted March 25, 2008 Share #10 Posted March 25, 2008 As has been said before the hat is an enlisted hat and you can see the witness mark where the EM cap badge disc was. That being said what size is it? Right now the size is the biggest determiner of price. If it is a large size 7 1/4 to 7 3/8th I would put it at 75 -125 or so. If it is tiny (under size 7) then it would be in the 20-30 dollar range. I don't know where Beau is getting his prices but they are a little low. Gary I am a patch guy but have problems passing by what I think is a good deal.I picked this chrusher up along with patches and DUI's and am wondering about its value. I notice that this one has a smaller Eagle than most I have seen, don't know weather this is good or bad. The sweat band is seperating from the hat, only broken threads not damage to the sweat band. No markings that I can find. But the Brim is totally flexable, and soft and undamaged. The prices I see vary greatly for these covers, any idea what this one is worth? The only photo I have right now: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FW12 Posted March 25, 2008 Share #11 Posted March 25, 2008 As has been said before the hat is an enlisted hat and you can see the witness mark where the EM cap badge disc was. That being said what size is it? Right now the size is the biggest determiner of price. If it is a large size 7 1/4 to 7 3/8th I would put it at 75 -125 or so. If it is tiny (under size 7) then it would be in the 20-30 dollar range. I don't know where Beau is getting his prices but they are a little low.Gary I disagree. The price range I quoted is the price I see these caps going for on eBay everyday. Since when have enlisted examples started going for that much? Now, if the owner slapped the cap discussed in this thread up on ebay and describe it as a "true officer's crusher, with a strange mini-eagle variant," then I bet some sucker would pay that kind of money for an enlisted cap. The price you quote Gary is just one I haven't seen. If, however, that is the case today and I'm wrong, great, because I'll be glad to sell off my enlisted caps for that kind of money. Beau Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nack Posted March 25, 2008 Share #12 Posted March 25, 2008 As has been said before the hat is an enlisted hat and you can see the witness mark where the EM cap badge disc was. That being said what size is it? Right now the size is the biggest determiner of price. If it is a large size 7 1/4 to 7 3/8th I would put it at 75 -125 or so. If it is tiny (under size 7) then it would be in the 20-30 dollar range. I don't know where Beau is getting his prices but they are a little low.Gary I think that is an item where the price can vary a ton. Remember there were many millions of em caps made, so they are not rare. It is interesting that it is officer material, but it isn't an officer cap. That would be the only reason it would be worth more than $10-$20. A near-mint, run-of-the-mill em cap can be easily found for that. I don't know that the premium for it being made of officer material could be more than double or triple, at the most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Cain Posted March 25, 2008 Share #13 Posted March 25, 2008 Please note, I said the price is dependant on size. As far as the base price for a small hat, the cap badge alone will sell for 10 bucks. So 20-30 is what I see on ebay as well. I may live in Carson City but I am not in a vacuum I disagree. The price range I quoted is the price I see these caps going for on eBay everyday. Since when have enlisted examples started going for that much? Now, if the owner slapped the cap discussed in this thread up on ebay and describe it as a "true officer's crusher, with a strange mini-eagle variant," then I bet some sucker would pay that kind of money for an enlisted cap. The price you quote Gary is just one I haven't seen. If, however, that is the case today and I'm wrong, great, because I'll be glad to sell off my enlisted caps for that kind of money. Beau Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CNY Militaria Posted March 25, 2008 Share #14 Posted March 25, 2008 I agree with Gary Here, $20-30 minimim, especially since it does have the gaberdine top and pliable visor. Try to find one of these for that price range at a show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wailuna Posted March 25, 2008 Share #15 Posted March 25, 2008 ...Often enlisted men bought caps from companies like Society Brand and Imperial that did have that officer-quality top, but lacked the mohair band (so as to comply with regulations).... Not that it made much difference, either then or now, but an "enlisted crusher" did not comply with regulations. According to the Army uniform regulation in force during WWII (AR 600-35), Army Air Forces officers, warrant officers, and flight officers were explicitly permitted to remove the front spring and grommet stiffeners from their service caps. Enlisted men were not permitted to so modify their issue service caps and only by the wildest stretch of imagination could an enlisted man believe that he got around this regulation by modifying a commercial service cap, which did not conform to regulations for enlisted wear in any case. Photographic evidence abounds that wearing "enlisted crushers" was widespread in the USAAF during WWII but comply with regulations they did not. As for buying (or valuing) an "enlisted crusher" today, there is no refuge in the regs, so buyer beware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FW12 Posted March 25, 2008 Share #16 Posted March 25, 2008 Not that it made much difference, either then or now, but an "enlisted crusher" did not comply with regulations. According to the Army uniform regulation in force during WWII (AR 600-35), Army Air Forces officers, warrant officers, and flight officers were explicitly permitted to remove the front spring and grommet stiffeners from their service caps. Enlisted men were not permitted to so modify their issue service caps and only by the wildest stretch of imagination could an enlisted man believe that he got around this regulation by modifying a commercial service cap, which did not conform to regulations for enlisted wear in any case. Photographic evidence abounds that wearing "enlisted crushers" was widespread in the USAAF during WWII but comply with regulations they did not. As for buying (or valuing) an "enlisted crusher" today, there is no refuge in the regs, so buyer beware. I wasn't trying to assert that a crusher conformed to regulations, I was simply stating that an enlisted cap was not supposed to have a mohair band. In any event, I think it has been determined that this cap is not a crusher, merely a private purchase service visor with the stiffner removed. Beau Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thunderw21 Posted March 26, 2008 Share #17 Posted March 26, 2008 Here's another enlisted man's "crusher" cap, though like the one above it does not have a pliable visor and the stiffener is gone, showing that it is not a true enlisted man's crusher. Came with a USAAF overcoat and shirt. Did enlisted men who couldn't afford a private purchase cap take out the stiffener in their issued caps in order to have a crusher lookalike? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pconrad02 Posted March 26, 2008 Share #18 Posted March 26, 2008 Guys, I hate to rain on this parade, but I don't see any true crushers in this thread... just a few standard caps with the stiffener removed. If you want a bargain, buy a $20 cap on eBay and pull the stiffener out yourself.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wailuna Posted March 26, 2008 Share #19 Posted March 26, 2008 ...Guys, I hate to rain on this parade, but I don't see any true crushers in this thread... just a few standard caps with the stiffener removed. If you want a bargain, buy a $20 cap on eBay and pull the stiffener out yourself.... This thread has been very informative; however, I am now confused as to the terminology of the so-called "crusher" service cap (is anyone else?) We seem to have just plain "crushers," officer and enlisted "crusher" variants, a "true crusher" even, and then ordinary service caps from which the stiffening merely has been removed (which seemed to be the Army's solution to this issue, at least with respect to USAAF officers). Perhaps someone who knows the lore will kindly post a "crusher" tutorial for the edification of the uninitiated here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FW12 Posted March 26, 2008 Share #20 Posted March 26, 2008 This thread has been very informative; however, I am now confused as to the terminology of the so-called "crusher" service cap (is anyone else?) We seem to have just plain "crushers," officer and enlisted "crusher" variants, a "true crusher" even, and then ordinary service caps from which the stiffening merely has been removed (which seemed to be the Army's solution to this issue, at least with respect to USAAF officers). Perhaps someone who knows the lore will kindly post a "crusher" tutorial for the edification of the uninitiated here. I'll step up to the challenge! I might miss a facet or two, I make no promises! The term "crusher" is often thrown about, and many people interpret it differently. For some, the term represents a service visor (your basic, generic, stiffened visor cap) that has had its stiffner removed, so as to give the cap the "crushed" look. Below is a typical service visor (uncrushed): As we all know, the stiffner was initially removed so as to allow pilots to wear their headphones while wearing their caps. Then, makers like Bancroft, Fly Weight, Dobbs, and Knox, began to make what many of us consider "true crushers." Unlike the service visor "crushers," true crushers have the following features: 1. Flexible visor (so much so, that it can literally be rolled up). 2. Flexible frame (again, to allow it to be shoved in a pocket) Here is an example of a "true crusher" (this one was manufactured by Dobbs). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FW12 Posted March 26, 2008 Share #21 Posted March 26, 2008 Crusher Defined (Cont.) Note that one will rarely see "true crushers" with the thick fur felt tops or even some of the thicker wool tops. More often than not, true crushers will incorporate either very light wool or light gabardine tops, like the Bancroft "Flighter" below. Now, it is true that some service caps have visors similar to crushers like the cap below: Is it a crusher? Well, nobody knows for sure. It has the crusher visor, but it doesn't have the body that one would expect of a true crusher. I would say, that to be declared a "true crusher," the cap must conform to the basic tenets of a flexible visor and a flexible body. This cap, while it does have that visor, lacks a body that can be crushed up and shoved into a pocket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FW12 Posted March 26, 2008 Share #22 Posted March 26, 2008 A couple of examples. Is this a crusher? Yes, most definitely. It has the single ply leather visor, crushable body, and light gabardine top. I have never come across a true crusher with a visor that is thicker than my bimonthly issue of WWII Magazine. You should be able to - though I wouldn't recommend it for fear of damaging the cap - just stuff that cap in your pocket. If it can't be done, it ain't a true crusher (in my opinion). Alright, another example, is this a crusher? No! This cap is in the crusher style, but it is most definitely a service visor that has been made to look like a crusher. Notice the thick stiff brim, the heavy wool top, and the inflexible frame. Looks like a crusher, but does it act like one? Disclaimer: the terms "crusher," "true crusher," etc., are all open to interpretation. The above definitions are simply my interpretations of the meaning of these ambiguous - and often abused - terms. Beau Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricardo Posted March 26, 2008 Share #23 Posted March 26, 2008 Thank you Beau!!! Best regards, Ricardo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Cain Posted March 26, 2008 Share #24 Posted March 26, 2008 Hi Beau, That's a pretty good example of the crusher. I do agree with you that the term crusher is way overused. There is a crusher and there is a service cap. A crusher is as you described flexible of both body and visor. All other configurations are not crushers. There is no need for the term "true crusher". A hat is either a service cap or a crusher. Cheers Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FW12 Posted March 27, 2008 Share #25 Posted March 27, 2008 Hi Beau, That's a pretty good example of the crusher. I do agree with you that the term crusher is way overused. There is a crusher and there is a service cap. A crusher is as you described flexible of both body and visor. All other configurations are not crushers. There is no need for the term "true crusher". A hat is either a service cap or a crusher. Cheers Gary I completely agree Gary. Ricardo: your welcome! Beau Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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