Anybody speak Japanese? Hinomaru pics inside

[shcpirate]

This hinomaru flag came home with a US Marine who fought at Tarawa and Saipan, and I'd like to know what it says. I'm going to have it framed and placed with a picture of the Marine.

 

If you find this offensive, I hope you remember that the 442nd RCT would have loved to have had the chance to fight the Japanese, so Japanese Americans were apparently OK with it. They brought home plenty of Nazi stuff, and this German American (HEAVY emphasis on the American) is 100% A-OK with it.

 

Thank you for any help in understanding and preserving the history of this flag.

 

 

[rrobertscv]

I have a Japanese saki bottle from the war and I posted it on this site under "All things Japanese". I got lots of help with the translations. Hope this helps

http://www.jref.com/forum/

[shcpirate]

I have a Japanese saki bottle from the war and I posted it on this site under "All things Japanese". I got lots of help with the translations. Hope this helps

http://www.jref.com/forum/

 

Thank you.

[Bob Hudson]

It was a Japanese soldier's personal flag. The large writing says "Buun Chokyu" which means "May your military fortunes be long lasting" -the rest is messages from friends and family and sometimes a name and hometown of the soldier.

 

It would be tough to find anyone able to translate ths rest of it: they'd probably have to be a bit of a Japanese language scholar.

[uplandmod]

Most of the writing is names most likely family friends and well wishers.

 

There is nothing offensive about this, a wonderful peice of Japanese culture and fine Kanji calligraphy.

 

Leonardo

[cbuehler]

The family name is Tani. Not quite sure of his first name though.

 

CB

[rr01]

This is probably something the family in Japan would like to have back, it is a most significant family piece and very likely the only item that will connect that family to the person who carried this flag. Any Japanese consulate will be happy to help you with the return and while it may look good as part of a display your personal satisfaction returning this flag will be much greater.

[vintageproductions]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but 90% of the Japanese people don't care about these flags at all. I still buy them in Japan at the flea markets thrown in with rag silk pieces in piles. Plus I did a documentary last year with NHK tv about WWII signed flags. I was interviewed to explain how the American collectors have more respect for these then the Japanese. One scene was filmed at the "Public Health building" where they store all the flags that have been returned by well meaning families of Veterans. They literally had 1000's of them and told us it was almost impossible to return the flags this many years later. Then the ones they did find the families of, didn't want them back. This is a prime example of where collectors respect and honor these items better then the families.

[rr01]

I guess I only dealt with that other 10%

[uplandmod]

It's kind of similiar to American items here some families were more than grateful to have these items back as it was the only thing in existence that the soldier once owned while others are so disconnected from the war or relative it really didn't mean much to them. I see them for sale on Japanese websites and most of the time they really don't sell for much. Author Dan King helps return these items to families but he does find families that don't want the items back in which his japanese contacts donate it to the national military shrine. Sometimes it's the us vet who Just wants closure.

 

I talked to at great length to both my Japanese co workers concerning these flags and they gave some great perspective on them.

 

LF

[shcpirate]

This is probably something the family in Japan would like to have back, it is a most significant family piece and very likely the only item that will connect that family to the person who carried this flag. Any Japanese consulate will be happy to help you with the return and while it may look good as part of a display your personal satisfaction returning this flag will be much greater.

 

I'm sorry, but this one isn't going back. The Marine who risked his life and valued it enough to bring it back with him would roll in his grave if I sent it back to Japan. Thank you for the help guys.

[rrobertscv]

 

I'm sorry, but this one isn't going back. The Marine who risked his life and valued it enough to bring it back with him would roll in his grave if I sent it back to Japan. Thank you for the help guys.

 

My thoughts exactly!!!!

[rr01]

I'm sorry, but this one isn't going back. The Marine who risked his life and valued it enough to bring it back with him would roll in his grave if I sent it back to Japan. Thank you for the help guys.

You don't need to apologize to me, I simply made a suggestion and I doubt anyone would ever roll over in any grave.

[shcpirate]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but 90% of the Japanese people don't care about these flags at all. I still buy them in Japan at the flea markets thrown in with rag silk pieces in piles. Plus I did a documentary last year with NHK tv about WWII signed flags. I was interviewed to explain how the American collectors have more respect for these then the Japanese. One scene was filmed at the "Public Health building" where they store all the flags that have been returned by well meaning families of Veterans. They literally had 1000's of them and told us it was almost impossible to return the flags this many years later. Then the ones they did find the families of, didn't want them back. This is a prime example of where collectors respect and honor these items better then the families.

 

I missed this, and now I don't feel bat at all for not thinking about sending this back to Japan. Thank you for the information.

[shcpirate]

You don't need to apologize to me, I simply made a suggestion and I doubt anyone would ever roll over in any grave.

 

You don't know too many Marines. I promise you that returning their spoils of war to the home country of their enemies wouldn't sit too well with most of them, and this one in particular. If anyone can roll in a grave, it is a Marine vet of the PTO.

[rrobertscv]

I wouldn't give back any "spoil of war" that a veteran brought home and entrusted to me, even if the family knocked on my door and asked for it. Not trying to step on any toes, just my opinion after the stories American POW's of both theaters told me.

[rr01]

You don't know too many Marines. I promise you that returning their spoils of war to the home country of their enemies wouldn't sit too well with most of them, and this one in particular. If anyone can roll in a grave, it is a Marine vet of the PTO.

You're right, the only Marines I know include younger family members, fellow Viet vets I fly with, the ones who gave me my last jump before retirement, a WWII Marine who once castigated me for not having as much combat time as him....and that's just the short list. I continue to use Marine officers as examples of leadership but now it sounds like I'm trying to justify myself when all I did was offer a suggestion and keep to what I suggested. And that suggestion is based upon many years recovering American and Japanese remains from the Pacific battlefields during the 1980s when many of us GIs, children of WWII vets word shoulder to shoulder with the generational off spring of our former enemies as well as many of the actual participants of those battles whose own experiences led them back to those batlefields.

Which brings me to the 10% part. That is a substantial number when considered against an entire nation but then those were and still are the people who continue to travel to the farther battlefields on behalf of families who continue to want to know more about what happened to a family member.

Let me offer this story. In '95 I returned to the Pacific to chronicle the 50th year ceremonies of all those final battles, not just Iwo jima & Okinawa but the major bombings of the mainland finishing up at Nagasaki and then on to Tokyo for VJ Day. It was amazing the events taking place to commemorate the lives lost in the Tokyo firebombings, the former adversaries on Iwo jima and Okinawa linked arm in arm as they visited the various battlesites. In only one instance did I encounter any angst by the Americans and it was from the daughter of one of the American vets. Her body language and tone of voice assured her isolation from the others and I doubt she knew why, after spending all that money to be there no one would have anything to do with her, Americans or Japanese. I doubt she still knows and the only thing I am personally thankful for is that I was not married to her.

[uplandmod]

I know you have a personal connection to this particular marine and I'm sure he indeed wouldn't want to return this item but indeed many pto marines have returned items back to the Japanese famlies I've read about it dozens of times in my Iwo Jima books as well as reading about Dan Kings great work.

 

Just like the gentleman who feels only PH belong to families, the owners of the items should decide what they want with their collectables. some pto marines would never give up there bring backs while others want closure to a tramatic part of their life. Neither are wrong and I respect both opinions and actions.

 

Good luck with the translation!

LF

[rr01]

Oh, yeah. The other writing is all names of well wishers.

[vintageproductions]

I have interviewed many Japanese surviving veterans in Japan ( IJN, China Campaign , Southern Front, Kamikazee pilots, etc.). I have listened to them tell their story's about why and how they did what they did. Some had a interest in the relics of their time, but the vast majority didn't care and really didn't want to see it. I have also had a personal tour through Yasakuni shrine by a pilot who survived, but he didn't want to look at the relics, he wanted to talk about his experiences. So while there are a few Japanese nationals that care about their wartime history, the majority of the population doesn't even know want to know about it. It was their grandparents time not theirs. I have had numerous flags given to me by the surviving veterans, because they knew their family's didn't care, and they were right. I have a friend who is a Japanese militaria dealer (mostly US items), that gave me his grandfather's combat helmet as he knew his son didn't care. I have talked to the son on numerous occasions, and keep telling him he can have the helmet back, but he keeps saying no, he doesn't care or want it. The biggest wake-up call I had, when dealing with Japanese veterans was one morning at Yasakuni Shrine there were some IJN veterans that still came in uniform (some parts real, but mostly Nakata's), to drill like they did in WWII. Through my translator, one of them asked why I was buying up the militaria items at the shrine sale. When I told him I was buying to take the items back to the US, he nodded and understood. I said to him that there are many collectors in Japan, of Japanese items. He shook his head and said, "No our countrymen do not want these items", and he finished with "Because we lost!". I have also been in Japan and stood next to the veterans on August 15th at Yasakuni when the Chinese and Koreans come over and try to cause trouble and protest on these sacred grounds. So you are not the only person who has dealt with veteran's on both sides, but obviously the isolated groups you have dealt with have a much different view of these war souvenirs, then the rest of the country.....

[rr01]

I have interviewed many Japanese surviving veterans in Japan ( IJN, China Campaign , Southern Front, Kamikazee pilots, etc.). I have listened to them tell their story's about why and how they did what they did. Some had a interest in the relics of their time, but the vast majority didn't care and really didn't want to see it. I have also had a personal tour through Yasakuni shrine by a pilot who survived, but he didn't want to look at the relics, he wanted to talk about his experiences. So while there are a few Japanese nationals that care about their wartime history, the majority of the population doesn't even know want to know about it. It was their grandparents time not theirs. I have had numerous flags given to me by the surviving veterans, because they knew their family's didn't care, and they were right. I have a friend who is a Japanese militaria dealer (mostly US items), that gave me his grandfather's combat helmet as he knew his son didn't care. I have talked to the son on numerous occasions, and keep telling him he can have the helmet back, but he keeps saying no, he doesn't care or want it. The biggest wake-up call I had, when dealing with Japanese veterans was one morning at Yasakuni Shrine there were some IJN veterans that still came in uniform (some parts real, but mostly Nakata's), to drill like they did in WWII. Through my translator, one of them asked why I was buying up the militaria items at the shrine sale. When I told him I was buying to take the items back to the US, he nodded and understood. I said to him that there are many collectors in Japan, of Japanese items. He shook his head and said, "No our countrymen do not want these items", and he finished with "Because we lost!". I have also been in Japan and stood next to the veterans on August 15th at Yasakuni when the Chinese and Koreans come over and try to cause trouble and protest on these sacred grounds. So you are not the only person who has dealt with veteran's on both sides, but obviously the isolated groups you have dealt with have a much different view of these war souvenirs, then the rest of the country.....

There is no doubt here that the experiences are as varied as the individuals. Speaking the language was of great help to me in seeking out folks who were, I suppose that other 10%. I chose to deal with people who had an interest because that made my own chronicles more interesting.

Anyone who has been to Yasakuni will agree that it is a tremendous experience and in 1995 it was even moreso with it being fifty years after the surrender. Again, meeting those who were that smaller group was more interesting because, it seems you can't swing a cat without coming up against disinterest. But that same apathy is equally evident today when you ask people about "Operation Anaconda" or even more generally what the initials "OIF" signify.

I suppose the people most interested are in fact that very small percentage who actually took part in the campaign. The rest of us don't have any idea but for me items such as this flag, or a marked pen or rice bowl might have a story that we don't and won't know without taking a greater interest which took place at the beginning of this topic with the request for help with the translation.

[gwb123]

It's interesting how intensely interested Japanese collectors are in US and German items, and less so about those of their own country from WWII.

 

Having said that, I remember in the 1990's seeing magazine ads where you could fully outfit yourself in reproduction Imperial Army and Navy uniforms... with very exacting details.

[rr01]

It's interesting how intensely interested Japanese collectors are in US and German items, and less so about those of their own country from WWII.

Having said that, I remember in the 1990's seeing magazine ads where you could fully outfit yourself in reproduction Imperial Army and Navy uniforms... with very exacting details.

You're right and we are all familiar with the "Buzz Rickson" line of US clothing but I feel this fascination stems from our occupation era which was the first true exposure the entire country had to Americans and it's allies. Digressing even further is how important it has been to preserve the old "American Emporer" offices and even how the Japanese staunchly adhere to their constitution written right after the war.

That being said there is still a very great interest by the Japanese in their WWII history though not seen the way we see it. Movies such as "None But The Brave", "Hell In The Pacific" and "Tora, Tora, Tora" where joint American/Japanese collaborations with very strict adherance to detail. It is even reputed that the great Japanese actor Toshiro Mifume dressed down the Japanese/American extras in "1941" for their casual approach to their characters in that movie.

Listed here are many examples of Japanese movies: http://www.usni.org/print/6573. I have a Japanese anti~war book, "The Song of Burma" which was also made into a Japanese language movie that is also very accurately portrayed.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that despite what is outwardly stated in Japan there IS a greater interest than we know....after all, most of their movies about themselves are in Japanese and don't really get distributed too far from the seven main islands.

[shcpirate]

If only this could talk. It came either of Saipan or Tarawa, and I wish there was a way to find out more. I got the soldiers name translated, is there a way to find out more about them?

[rr01]

If only this could talk. It came either of Saipan or Tarawa, and I wish there was a way to find out more. I got the soldiers name translated, is there a way to find out more about them?

I don't know if there is a Japanese version of NARA but the first thing to do is ID the soldier, find out where he is from and then go to the local city hall and get a copy of the family registry, a document akin to a birth certificate except it is more like a formal family tree. Often the family descendents still live in the area and once you have met them you will probably be directed to the other namrs on the flag since these were usually neighborhood families wishing a son luck {which obviously didn't go so well}.

It has been many decades since I have done this and maybe there is a less personal way which someone else might be able to help you figure out.