pzjgr Posted March 17, 2013 Share #1 Posted March 17, 2013 Hey Guys, I have three patches that have been kicking around that I have not been able to identify, so while cataloging my last batch, I figured I would post these and see if anyone can help with ID's.. These came from an older collection so I am assuming they are all US military, but I am not sure on the second two... The first is labeled on the back (but its very hard to read) Hqts and Hqts Co, 27th Avn. Bn., Korea....the 27th part is not clear, could be 271st maybe? In any case I cannot find a siniliar patch under either a google search for 27th aviation or 271st aviation....Aircraft looks like an old grasshopper Piper or some similiar type fixed wing aircraft...has a cheesecloth backing... The second is pretty small about 2" long...a red/white/red shield with a castle to the left (as looking at it), a palm tree in the middle, and some wreath with a fleur de lis (I think) to the right....I think I saw this one before, but can't remember where...might have even been a DUI... The third is a scroll, orangey red on black, that says M.G.R Det 851.... Any help or ideas on these would be appreciated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzjgr Posted March 17, 2013 Author Share #2 Posted March 17, 2013 The backs.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PATCHRAT Posted March 17, 2013 Share #3 Posted March 17, 2013 the second one is the 250th CA Regt. The two small chevrons below the tree are not on the older DI's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J_Andrews Posted March 17, 2013 Share #4 Posted March 17, 2013 The 250th was AAA then ADA then Arty in the Cal NG. in the 1950s-1970s, they were NIKE-equipped around San Francisco. This small patch was for wear on FA scarlet neckerchiefs. The small chevrons may have been added to denote the 2nd Bn, 250th ADA/Arty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzjgr Posted March 17, 2013 Author Share #5 Posted March 17, 2013 Thanks on that one Patchrat! I think that is where I saw it before, as one of my DI's which I remember ID'ing, thats why it seemed familiar...what would this have been used for, any idea? Perhaps on the overseas hat, or a cloth version of a DI? ETA....I see J Andrews added a reply which neatly answered my question on use as I was typing apparently...thanks for the input! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longhorn92 Posted March 17, 2013 Share #6 Posted March 17, 2013 The scroll says "B51," not "851." The "MGR" is a mystery to me but some people think it's "Mobile Guerilla Recon," including Harry Pugh, who has one or more variants of the scroll in his Elite Insignia Guide #3. I was able to ask him via email once what it stood for and he thought "Mobile Guerrilla Recon." Det B51(from 5th Group) ran various courses at the LLDB training center at Dong Ba Thin, which later became known as the National Training Center. They ran MIKE Force courses so the "MGR" might refer to one of the courses they ran but I have neither seen pics nor read info on what "MGR" means with respect to Det B51 so I'll go with Pugh's answer for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doyler Posted March 17, 2013 Share #7 Posted March 17, 2013 I would say it was 271st and it does appear to be Army aviator related flying L1s or light aircraft for spotting etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chcole1 Posted March 17, 2013 Share #8 Posted March 17, 2013 Recently I posted one of these smaller 250th CAs as well. http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/164769-smaller-sized-250th-coastal-artillery-patch/page__hl__250th A WWII vet I showed it to said he had never seen one. The NG use in the 50s-70s would explain that. Thanks for the info. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzjgr Posted March 19, 2013 Author Share #9 Posted March 19, 2013 Thanks for all the input guys...interesting stuff on the scroll...any idea or opinion on whether its good (real) or not? Now if I can just get some verification of the aviation patch.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwb123 Posted March 19, 2013 Share #10 Posted March 19, 2013 The scroll says "B51," not "851." The "MGR" is a mystery to me but some people think it's "Mobile Guerilla Recon," including Harry Pugh, who has one or more variants of the scroll in his Elite Insignia Guide #3. I was able to ask him via email once what it stood for and he thought "Mobile Guerrilla Recon." . I'm looking at my copy of Harry's book, 1993 edition, and I am not seeing this scroll in his chapter on B51 on page 140. Did Harry come out with a later addition, or is it elsewhere in the book. Aside from that, I would call this one questionable. The construction is really clunky, not like the well shaped and embroidered tabs and arcs of the period. The lettering is all over the place and the sections of the scroll do not match each other. Compare it to other period made examples and I think yoiu will find this one to be lacking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longhorn92 Posted March 19, 2013 Share #11 Posted March 19, 2013 I'm looking at my copy of Harry's book, 1993 edition, and I am not seeing this scroll in his chapter on B51 on page 140. Did Harry come out with a later addition, or is it elsewhere in the book. Sorry, you are correct; I was going off of memory. The ones pictured are not the same--they aren't scrolls--but clearly the "Det B51" and "MGR" are related to the insignia in Pugh's book. So now I'm not sure if I've seen the scroll elsewhere or was thinking about the ones in the book and just remembered the lettering and not the actual scroll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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